MF 135 UK Hydraulic Questions

bmacd11 · May 22, 2019

My brother and I restored a 1973 MF 135 UK. This site was very helpful with lots of our re-assembly issues; and being new to tractors, we had lots.
Now that it's been on the road for almost a year, maybe it's time to finesse the brute. One issue that's been bugging me is the slowness of the loader to raise when the blower is attached. I'm aware through reading a lot that the 135 single pump wasn't made to have both implements and slow is normal. But, here's the rub. If the blower is raised high, the bucket is excruciatingly slow. However, if I drop the blower almost to the ground, the bucket goes faster; not fast, but faster. Knowing that the lift control lever has to be all the way up for bucket to work, is there a correlation between the full up bucket position and the position of the lever when it was controlling the blower? It seems the further apart those two positions are, the better the bucket works, or am I dreaming?
My simple mind has concluded two possibilities:
1. The rigging of the hydraulic position levers inside the lift cover is not exactly correct; or
2. I might have lower than spec hydraulic pressure.

Respecting #1, certainly a possibility since it's the first time (ok, third) we've done it, but it should be pretty close. Worth investigating if you think it's worth it.

As for #2, hydraulic pressure could be an issue. We replaced the valves, fluid, filter, bypass valve, new O rings and backing on the stand pipe and o rings on the TS300 but, the pump does have 3000 hours on it.

I think the next step might be checking output pressure, but I'm not sure where to do that. Would it be possible to get a good pressure reading at the #3 position on the TS300 (nothing connected there now). I know you're not supposed to dead head a hydraulic line, but we know that the bypass valve works well. Is there anywhere to get pressure from the lift cover? Installing a T fitting is best, I know, but that's a lot of work and expense.

I'd be grateful to hear what you think. Thanks again and again. And, I have no idea why the photos load sideways.

DavidP, South Wales · May 23, 2019

Hello from the UK, nice looking tractor. Glad to see that at least one 'straight-axle' 135 made it to the States!!!!
I've turned my head onto it's side as far as I can but still can't see enough detail soI have had to save the image
and turn it right way up and magnify it.
I can't see whether the tractor is fitted with an isolating valve on the front cover or not. If not, where are you
taking your supply for the loader from?
Response from the Ferguson pump should not be slow as long as you have selectable oil supply to the loader and
blower.
I'm guessing a little here but is this blower a heavy implement which exerts a considerable tension force on the top
link when lifted on the 3-point? Does this force increase as it is lifted higher due to the geometry of the blower
or 3-point linkage.

If the supply for the loader is in the same circuit as the 3-point then the lift will be slow. If they require
roughly similar lifting pressures then the lightest one will go first.

If the blower is a heavy item as I suspect I believe that your problem lies in wear/bad adjustment of the control
spring assembly. That is the assembly forward of the point where the top link is attached. It is rare for a spring
to break so it is normally lack of the setting pressure and end float in the assembly that will cause the pump lever
to put the pump in less than the full pumping position.

To check this disconnect the top link and place the outer DRAFT quadrant lever in the fully lowered position. Place
the inner lever in CONSTANT PUMPING. Push and pull the control spring rocker assembly by hand and check for end-
float. There should be none or at least negligible movement. This is part of the check. The assembly should be
removed and the spring checked for slight loading on it. If it is loose it requires adjustment. Loading should be no
more than hand tight to make it STIFF to turn by hand.....NO MORE.

The spring and assembly should then be adjusted as per MF instructions. If you need to strip the assembly you may
need plenty of patience as the fine thread can be easily wrecked and you need to know exactly what you are doing. This can be further checked by attaching a suitable chain to the hinge-pin lugs on the centre housing and use that as the top link attachment point. This by-passes the control spring and should allow the pump to move to the full pumping position.

Let us know how you get on with this part first.

DavidP, South Wales

stapleford · May 24, 2019

Hi we had exactly the same issue. Firstly he draught control was causing part of the slowness which was resolved by rebuilding the draught control with new spring (top link) as any load on the rear links made the front loader slow right down
Secondly the metal gauze oil filter in the gearbox supplying the hyd pump was clogged up. Replaced that and oil flow improved hugely

bmacd11 · May 25, 2019

(quoted from post at 18:02:07 05/23/19) Hello from the UK, nice looking tractor. Glad to see that at least one 'straight-axle' 135 made it to the States!!!!
I've turned my head onto it's side as far as I can but still can't see enough detail soI have had to save the image
and turn it right way up and magnify it.
I can't see whether the tractor is fitted with an isolating valve on the front cover or not. If not, where are you
taking your supply for the loader from?
Response from the Ferguson pump should not be slow as long as you have selectable oil supply to the loader and
blower.
I'm guessing a little here but is this blower a heavy implement which exerts a considerable tension force on the top
link when lifted on the 3-point? Does this force increase as it is lifted higher due to the geometry of the blower
or 3-point linkage.

If the supply for the loader is in the same circuit as the 3-point then the lift will be slow. If they require
roughly similar lifting pressures then the lightest one will go first.

If the blower is a heavy item as I suspect I believe that your problem lies in wear/bad adjustment of the control
spring assembly. That is the assembly forward of the point where the top link is attached. It is rare for a spring
to break so it is normally lack of the setting pressure and end float in the assembly that will cause the pump lever
to put the pump in less than the full pumping position.

To check this disconnect the top link and place the outer DRAFT quadrant lever in the fully lowered position. Place
the inner lever in CONSTANT PUMPING. Push and pull the control spring rocker assembly by hand and check for end-
float. There should be none or at least negligible movement. This is part of the check. The assembly should be
removed and the spring checked for slight loading on it. If it is loose it requires adjustment. Loading should be no
more than hand tight to make it STIFF to turn by hand.....NO MORE.

The spring and assembly should then be adjusted as per MF instructions. If you need to strip the assembly you may
need plenty of patience as the fine thread can be easily wrecked and you need to know exactly what you are doing. This can be further checked by attaching a suitable chain to the hinge-pin lugs on the centre housing and use that as the top link attachment point. This by-passes the control spring and should allow the pump to move to the full pumping position.

Let us know how you get on with this part first.

DavidP, South Wales

BMacD

Hello again, sorry for the delay. I'm a weekend tractor guy.

First, I have the TS 300 diverter/isolator so I can direct flow between the front and the back (picture attached). The two lines attached are the power and return lines for the loader.

You're correct; the blower is very heavy, I'd say about 400-600 lbs just a guess. And, I believe you're correct by saying it's the top link that's causing issues. Today, I chained up the top side of the blower to the tractor thereby bypassing the top link. The loader worked at normal speed no matter what position the blower was in. So, it does look like the top link is causing the issue and redirecting flow to the back end as it would when plowing.

As for the top link, we did already rebuild that piece and adjusted it per the MF manual. I double checked it today with the test you described with the draft control fully down and the lift control in constant pumping position. There is no play at all in the control spring. I don't think the spring and plunger would go out of adjustment on their own, do you? It was hand tight when we installed it.

So, considering it's most probably the top link causing the issue due to the heavy blower, what would be the best solution. Is there a way to isolate that part of the draft control so that compressing the top spring can't affect the pump? We don't even have a plow, but maybe the next owner might, I suppose.

The top link spring does make a nice shock absorber when travelling on the road so I don't think chaining it to the tractor permanently would be a good idea.

As for pump pressure, I did buy the T fittings required to install a pressure check gauge but unfortunately I got the wrong size fittings. That test will have to wait until next weekend. Is there anywhere else that I can check the pressure directly. I tried the rear orifice on the TS 300 (where a log splitter would go) and I don't get any pressure. Is there an outlet to measure pressure somewhere on the lift cover? There are a couple of plugs on the cover but I don't know if they're connected to a hydraulic flow.

Thanks for helping.

bmacd11 · Jun 2, 2019

(quoted from post at 16:21:06 05/25/19)

(quoted from post at 18:02:07 05/23/19) Hello from the UK, nice looking tractor. Glad to see that at least one 'straight-axle' 135 made it to the States!!!!
I've turned my head onto it's side as far as I can but still can't see enough detail soI have had to save the image
and turn it right way up and magnify it.
I can't see whether the tractor is fitted with an isolating valve on the front cover or not. If not, where are you
taking your supply for the loader from?
Response from the Ferguson pump should not be slow as long as you have selectable oil supply to the loader and
blower.
I'm guessing a little here but is this blower a heavy implement which exerts a considerable tension force on the top
link when lifted on the 3-point? Does this force increase as it is lifted higher due to the geometry of the blower
or 3-point linkage.

If the supply for the loader is in the same circuit as the 3-point then the lift will be slow. If they require
roughly similar lifting pressures then the lightest one will go first.

If the blower is a heavy item as I suspect I believe that your problem lies in wear/bad adjustment of the control
spring assembly. That is the assembly forward of the point where the top link is attached. It is rare for a spring
to break so it is normally lack of the setting pressure and end float in the assembly that will cause the pump lever
to put the pump in less than the full pumping position.

To check this disconnect the top link and place the outer DRAFT quadrant lever in the fully lowered position. Place
the inner lever in CONSTANT PUMPING. Push and pull the control spring rocker assembly by hand and check for end-
float. There should be none or at least negligible movement. This is part of the check. The assembly should be
removed and the spring checked for slight loading on it. If it is loose it requires adjustment. Loading should be no
more than hand tight to make it STIFF to turn by hand.....NO MORE.

The spring and assembly should then be adjusted as per MF instructions. If you need to strip the assembly you may
need plenty of patience as the fine thread can be easily wrecked and you need to know exactly what you are doing. This can be further checked by attaching a suitable chain to the hinge-pin lugs on the centre housing and use that as the top link attachment point. This by-passes the control spring and should allow the pump to move to the full pumping position.

Let us know how you get on with this part first.

DavidP, South Wales

Click to expand...

BMacD

Hello again, sorry for the delay. I'm a weekend tractor guy.

First, I have the TS 300 diverter/isolator so I can direct flow between the front and the back (picture attached). The two lines attached are the power and return lines for the loader.

You're correct; the blower is very heavy, I'd say about 400-600 lbs just a guess. And, I believe you're correct by saying it's the top link that's causing issues. Today, I chained up the top side of the blower to the tractor thereby bypassing the top link. The loader worked at normal speed no matter what position the blower was in. So, it does look like the top link is causing the issue and redirecting flow to the back end as it would when plowing.

As for the top link, we did already rebuild that piece and adjusted it per the MF manual. I double checked it today with the test you described with the draft control fully down and the lift control in constant pumping position. There is no play at all in the control spring. I don't think the spring and plunger would go out of adjustment on their own, do you? It was hand tight when we installed it.

So, considering it's most probably the top link causing the issue due to the heavy blower, what would be the best solution. Is there a way to isolate that part of the draft control so that compressing the top spring can't affect the pump? We don't even have a plow, but maybe the next owner might, I suppose.

The top link spring does make a nice shock absorber when travelling on the road so I don't think chaining it to the tractor permanently would be a good idea.

As for pump pressure, I did buy the T fittings required to install a pressure check gauge but unfortunately I got the wrong size fittings. That test will have to wait until next weekend. Is there anywhere else that I can check the pressure directly. I tried the rear orifice on the TS 300 (where a log splitter would go) and I don't get any pressure. Is there an outlet to measure pressure somewhere on the lift cover? There are a couple of plugs on the cover but I don't know if they're connected to a hydraulic flow.

Thanks for helping.

To add to the discussion: I put a T coupling in the hydraulic supply line for the front end loader. Pressure when the bucket reached full rotation was 2825 psi (you could hear the relief valve dumping). So, this is right on spec for the MF135. With this info, we prove DavidP is correct in that it's the Top Link that's slowing the bucket down for sure.

One other thing that could be making it ridiculously slow with the blower raised, is flow rate. Would you agree with that? I could put in another filter but when we rebuilt the lift cover and put new valves on the pump, we cleaned it out very well and installed a new filter then. What do you think?

bmacd11 · Jun 17, 2019

(quoted from post at 16:25:32 06/02/19)

(quoted from post at 16:21:06 05/25/19)

(quoted from post at 18:02:07 05/23/19) Hello from the UK, nice looking tractor. Glad to see that at least one 'straight-axle' 135 made it to the States!!!!
I've turned my head onto it's side as far as I can but still can't see enough detail soI have had to save the image
and turn it right way up and magnify it.
I can't see whether the tractor is fitted with an isolating valve on the front cover or not. If not, where are you
taking your supply for the loader from?
Response from the Ferguson pump should not be slow as long as you have selectable oil supply to the loader and
blower.
I'm guessing a little here but is this blower a heavy implement which exerts a considerable tension force on the top
link when lifted on the 3-point? Does this force increase as it is lifted higher due to the geometry of the blower
or 3-point linkage.

If the supply for the loader is in the same circuit as the 3-point then the lift will be slow. If they require
roughly similar lifting pressures then the lightest one will go first.

If the blower is a heavy item as I suspect I believe that your problem lies in wear/bad adjustment of the control
spring assembly. That is the assembly forward of the point where the top link is attached. It is rare for a spring
to break so it is normally lack of the setting pressure and end float in the assembly that will cause the pump lever
to put the pump in less than the full pumping position.

To check this disconnect the top link and place the outer DRAFT quadrant lever in the fully lowered position. Place
the inner lever in CONSTANT PUMPING. Push and pull the control spring rocker assembly by hand and check for end-
float. There should be none or at least negligible movement. This is part of the check. The assembly should be
removed and the spring checked for slight loading on it. If it is loose it requires adjustment. Loading should be no
more than hand tight to make it STIFF to turn by hand.....NO MORE.

The spring and assembly should then be adjusted as per MF instructions. If you need to strip the assembly you may
need plenty of patience as the fine thread can be easily wrecked and you need to know exactly what you are doing. This can be further checked by attaching a suitable chain to the hinge-pin lugs on the centre housing and use that as the top link attachment point. This by-passes the control spring and should allow the pump to move to the full pumping position.

Let us know how you get on with this part first.

DavidP, South Wales

Click to expand...

BMacD

Hello again, sorry for the delay. I'm a weekend tractor guy.

First, I have the TS 300 diverter/isolator so I can direct flow between the front and the back (picture attached). The two lines attached are the power and return lines for the loader.

You're correct; the blower is very heavy, I'd say about 400-600 lbs just a guess. And, I believe you're correct by saying it's the top link that's causing issues. Today, I chained up the top side of the blower to the tractor thereby bypassing the top link. The loader worked at normal speed no matter what position the blower was in. So, it does look like the top link is causing the issue and redirecting flow to the back end as it would when plowing.

As for the top link, we did already rebuild that piece and adjusted it per the MF manual. I double checked it today with the test you described with the draft control fully down and the lift control in constant pumping position. There is no play at all in the control spring. I don't think the spring and plunger would go out of adjustment on their own, do you? It was hand tight when we installed it.

So, considering it's most probably the top link causing the issue due to the heavy blower, what would be the best solution. Is there a way to isolate that part of the draft control so that compressing the top spring can't affect the pump? We don't even have a plow, but maybe the next owner might, I suppose.

The top link spring does make a nice shock absorber when travelling on the road so I don't think chaining it to the tractor permanently would be a good idea.

As for pump pressure, I did buy the T fittings required to install a pressure check gauge but unfortunately I got the wrong size fittings. That test will have to wait until next weekend. Is there anywhere else that I can check the pressure directly. I tried the rear orifice on the TS 300 (where a log splitter would go) and I don't get any pressure. Is there an outlet to measure pressure somewhere on the lift cover? There are a couple of plugs on the cover but I don't know if they're connected to a hydraulic flow.

Thanks for helping.

Click to expand...

To add to the discussion: I put a T coupling in the hydraulic supply line for the front end loader. Pressure when the bucket reached full rotation was 2825 psi (you could hear the relief valve dumping). So, this is right on spec for the MF135. With this info, we prove DavidP is correct in that it's the Top Link that's slowing the bucket down for sure.

One other thing that could be making it ridiculously slow with the blower raised, is flow rate. Would you agree with that? I could put in another filter but when we rebuilt the lift cover and put new valves on the pump, we cleaned it out very well and installed a new filter then. What do you think?

Anymore comment on my slow loader issue? Thanks in advance.

ptfarmer · Jun 19, 2019

A front mount hydraulic pump that has at least 14gpm capacity will speed things up from the 4.5gpm that the 3 point pump supplies.

bmacd11 · Jun 20, 2019

(quoted from post at 22:28:19 06/19/19) A front mount hydraulic pump that has at least 14gpm capacity will speed things up from the 4.5gpm that the 3 point pump supplies.

That would be great wouldn't it. Seems though that the kits for auxiliary pumps are scarce as hens teeth. I've been researching the second pump option for awhile but the only one I've found is the pump that mounts on top of the existing pump (HM531607). I can't find an installation kit for that either.

MF 135 UK Hydraulic Questions

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DavidP, South Wales

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stapleford

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ptfarmer

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