102 Jr shifter help?

Canuk · Sep 2, 2010

Many years ago a repair was done to the transmission of our 102 Jr by my late father.
During reassembly I believe he may have not reinstalled a bracket/part that ensures only 1 gear can be selected at a time.
I'll try to explain in the hope that maybe someone may have a parts book, or possibly enough experience to help me determine what I can do to fix it.

When shifting from one gear to another the shifter forks (inside the tranny) can put the transmission in two gears at one time (reverse and first for instance).
This happens because the tong of the shifter shaft doesn't have a guide to line it up with only one of the shifter forks in the transmission, as such it pushes two gears onto the main planetary shaft at once.
I hope this makes some sense, I'm having difficulty describing with proper part names.

When this happens the only way to get it back to neutral is to take off the shifter cover and manually move all the shifter fork sliders back to the center position.
I am thinking there must be a missing bracket that aligns the shifter shaft with the shifter forks so that it can only move one shifter fork at a time...thus only selecting one gear at a time
If I am real careful when shifting gears, I can feel the shifter lining up with fork sliders and stop it from doing this....but is sure is a pain when it does this.

Would anyone happen to have a transmission parts manual, or experience with these units to help me figure out what is missing?

Appreciate it.

Bruce S IL · Sep 2, 2010

I have a 101 Jr out in my garage all striped down and up on blocks that I am restoring. I already have put the shifter cover back on but it wouldn't be a big deal to pull it back off to see if I can see what you might be missing. If you don't get answer in a day or two I'll check it out.
If you can wait a day or two.

Anonymous-0 · Sep 3, 2010

I don't think there is any missing parts. Your problem sounds like a worn shifter. When the little round end gets worn it will slip between the rails. The fix is either to replace the shifter or build up the end. I have run into this problem a few time and that curred the problem.Hope this helps.

Canuk · Sep 4, 2010

(quoted from post at 08:16:54 09/03/10) I don't think there is any missing parts. Your problem sounds like a worn shifter. When the little round end gets worn it will slip between the rails. The fix is either to replace the shifter or build up the end. I have run into this problem a few time and that curred the problem.Hope this helps.

Thanks for tip Chris and thanks Bruce for the offer to look for me. Sorry in advance for my crude use of the part names, I can't seem to find a site to help me use the proper terminology.

My shifter isn't sliding in between the blocks that move the shifter forks. I know what you are suggesting and mine is real tight with no space for the shifter to slide between them.

My problem is that there is nothing stopping the shifter from moving two of the shifter blocks at the same time and as such it can engage two gears onto the planetary shaft at the same time.
I'm thinking there must be something that aligns the shifter with just one slider at a time.
I wish I had a parts view of a typical tranny to better explain it. I'll keep looking to see what I can find.

Cheers

Bruce S IL · Sep 5, 2010

I have not been able to see what keeps if from going into two gears at one time. I can't get it to go into two gears if I try. Are there any two gears you particulary you have trouble with? I'll mess with a little more.

Canuk · Sep 5, 2010

(quoted from post at 07:26:04 09/05/10) I have not been able to see what keeps if from going into two gears at one time. I can't get it to go into two gears if I try. Are there any two gears you particulary you have trouble with? I'll mess with a little more.

Would there happen to be a guide bolted to the gear case cover that holds/guides the shifter?

With my gear case cover off and looking striat down, I have 3 slider blocks supported by rails that move the shifter forks and engage the selected gear with the planetary shaft.
The tail of the shifter shaft (inside the tranny) has nothing to stop it from moving two of the sliders (forward or reverse) and thus engaging two gears at once.
I'm thinking there must be a guide either bolted to the removable gear case housing, or inside the tranny to align the shifter with the sliders.

Ha, I must sound like my wife describing problems with her car on here....I understand now.

Bruce S IL · Sep 5, 2010

There is no guide bolted to to the gear case cover. I can roll the shifter around in circles when it of off the tractor.
In front of the transmission housing, beside the drive shaft going into the transmission, you see a block with a cover that covers the rods or rails. On top of that block there are 3 pipe plugs over each rail. There is a spring and with a ball under it. There are 3 v notches on top of the rails for this ball to set in to hold it in neutral or what ever gear it is in.
There is also a round notch on the SIDE of the rails or rods. One on each side of the center rail and one on the inside of the outer rails. My best uneducated guess is that there is a ball, or something, in between the rails that will not allow two rods to be moved at the same time and I would say yours are missing.
Take the cover off of that block and look at your rods or rails and you will see what I mean. There is a pipe blug on the side of that block, right next to the drive shaft. I would say the balls or whatever need to be insatlled through that hole.
I hope I have helped.

Bruce S IL · Sep 6, 2010

(quoted from post at 05:56:16 09/06/10) There is no guide bolted to to the gear case cover. I can roll the shifter around in circles when it of off the tractor.
In front of the transmission housing, beside the drive shaft going into the transmission, you see a block with a cover that covers the rods or rails. On top of that block there are 3 pipe plugs over each rail. There is a spring and with a ball under it. There are 3 v notches on top of the rails for this ball to set in to hold it in neutral or what ever gear it is in.
There is also a round notch on the SIDE of the rails or rods. One on each side of the center rail and one on the inside of the outer rails. My best uneducated guess is that there is a ball, or something, in between the rails that will not allow two rods to be moved at the same time and I would say yours are missing.
Take the cover off of that block and look at your rods or rails and you will see what I mean. There is a pipe plug on the side of that block, right next to the drive shaft. I would say the balls or whatever need to be insatlled through that hole. I don't know if you can fix this without taking the rails out of not.
I hope I have helped.

Bruce S IL · Sep 7, 2010

Hey Canuk, Were you able to understand what I thought the problem is on your shifting problem? I know what mean when you say it is hard to describe things when you don't know the part names. I think I could have explained it a little better after I thought about.

Canuk · Sep 11, 2010

(quoted from post at 11:45:26 09/07/10) Hey Canuk, Were you able to understand what I thought the problem is on your shifting problem? I know what mean when you say it is hard to describe things when you don't know the part names. I think I could have explained it a little better after I thought about.

Thanks Bruce I get what you are saying and I'm quite sure the part that the shifter tail sits in is what I am missing.
I have taken a couple of pics with my cover off to show what I have, possibly you could comment on what you see missing. (still trying to figure out how to upload the pic)

I guess I'm pretty much out of luck if I can't find a parts machine. If this is the case, I'll be selling the machine real cheap if you, or anyone else is interested.

cheers

Bruce S IL · Sep 11, 2010

Hey Canuk, Parts might not that hard to find if it is the part I think it is. It looks to me like the a Massey 44 has the same mechanisim. And if a 44 is the same a 30, 33, 333, and 444 would be the same also so you might have several donor tractor optiions. I have a burnt up Massey 44 that might have the right part if needed.
I still think is a part in that block on the front, outside of the transmission case is missing. I think there is ball bearing or a short round nosed shaft that goes in between the shifting rails that have the round the groove in them. The ball or short rod would have to sit in this groove to allow another rail to be moved. Two rails could not be moved at the same time because there would not be enough room without the ball or rod setting inside one of the grooves.
I have left my email open so send me an email then and the we will be able to email each other direct. Then you can send me pictures through email. I will borrow a digital camera so I can send pictures to you.
I think you can get it fixed without to much trouble. You probably don't want to sell your Dads tractor and its probably to far away for me to buy. I presume you are in Canada with a handle like Canuk and I'm in Southern Illinois.

Later
Bruce

102 Jr shifter help?

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