1969 3020 No start

Pnystuen

New User
Hello all,



Im having a starting issue on my 1969 3020 diesel (s/n 125345r). When I turn the key I get
clicking from the starter relay, but the starter will not crank. My first thought was bad batteries,
so I pulled them out and had them load tested and they both came back fine (2 6v wired in
series). I am mechanically inclined but a mostly self taught mechanic. I have been searching
through this forum for any possible answers, and so far I have replaced the starter relay and the
ignition key switch. Both seemed like logical inexpensive places to start. I grabbed the
multimeter and found that I had 12v at the starter, and I had 12v at the starter relay (I did
inadvertently touch a screw driver across the relay and the starter cranked briefly confirming.I
have power there). I then tested the wire coming from the key switch to the relay and had no
voltage when turning the key. Tested the power wire coming into the key switch in the console
and had power there so figured it had to be the switch. After I installed the new key switch it
started 2 or 3 times but now we are back to just clicking at the relay. I thought maybe I had a
broken wire from the key to the starter relay so I tested continuity and that seems just fine. My
limited knowledge is beginning to run out. Seems like this topic has been covered extensively on
here but I still cant find anything quite specific to what Im dealing with. Can anyone suggest
what I might be able to test next? II would like to try bypassing the neutral safety switch, but am
uncertain how to do so. Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!





Side note: this last summer we were experiencing a different electric issue. When you turned the
key the starter would engage and the engine would start but then immediately die and lights on
the dash would go out. It seemed as if all electrical was cut. Not sure if it is related or not as at
least we had the tractor trying to start there.



Paul
 
Check your battery connections at the battery posts, as well as where the ground cable attaches to the tractor frame. It may transfer enough current to click, but may not be a clean or tight enough connection to handle the higher amps needed to run the starter.
 
Welcome to this forum
I suggest to check to be sure relay above starter attached in front of firewall is receiving a good ground connection. To check neutral start switch remove connection on RH side of trans case between battery & trans case & place horseshoe shaped stiff wire AKA baling wire in contacts on electrical connection. Get on operators station in seat then activate key switch to determine if starter engages.

This post was edited by Tx Jim on 02/25/2023 at 12:46 pm.
 
Appreciate the suggestions guys. Ill have to go out and pull up the floor again and take a look at the main ground. However if I can get the starter to engage with a screwdriver across the relay, wouldnt that suggest I have an okay ground? Could it perhaps be a bad ground from the key switch? To test that would I just look for continuity to the frame of the tractor?

Thanks.
 
Hello PN welcome to YT. Whether your key switch housing is properly grounded or not makes no difference. The terminals on the back are all insulated from it and nothing the switch operates requires a ground signal from the switch. I am going to guess the neutral safety switch is your problem. However, the relay Jim pointed out could also be the trouble.
 
You have confirmed the large cables to be good since it cranked when s terminal was touched. If jumping the neutral start as suggested doesnt work its just taking a wire back and seeing if the wire from key to starter s terminal is bad. Components and wires can have continuity and even the correct voltage and still be the problem unfortunately if corroded enough. Wiring to and out of the neutral start switch and key switch is about all thats left. When key is on if you have power to generator or alternator up front would be another good question. If a test light lights up at charging system up front and goes out when switch is off you have confirmed power makes it both to key switch and through key switch
 
Gotchya. If I wanted to run a new wire from the key switch to the starter relay, what is the easiest way to go about that? Can pull the wire out of the back of the plastic wire connector on the back of the key switch and put a new wire in?
 
Temporarily you could wrap it around the post on the key switch, disconnect old wire from relay and then put the connector back on. If it fixes it I believe that big v shaped plastic connector you can push the wire out the front of it toward where the switch would plug on and put a new end on. A lot of times Im putting enough wires on the old stuff goes in the dumpster and regular heat shrink female spades get used so I cant remember what fits in the oem connector I think Ive even used those heat shrink ones in them
 
Had a few minutes to look at it again tonight. Have 12 volts at the alternator which drops to 3v when I turn the key to engage the starter. Looked at the key switch again and I actually have two wires coming from the key switch on the starter post but I am unable to see where they go and I dont have enough room to squeeze a third wire in to test. I wiggled all the wires under the console, pulled up the floor and inspected/wiggled all wires there and still have nothing but clicking. In addition now, when I touch the screw driver across the relay I dont get cranking anymore. Think I may have reached the limits of my abilities. Ill probably give John Deere a call tomorrow and see what they will charge to look at it. Will update if I learn anything new.
 

If when shorting from "S" terminal to top post on starter solenoid won't cause starter to engage then your tractor has a faulty battery cable or connection. Rather than have JD dealer tech inspect your tractor I suggest you to inspect battery cables & connections "very closely". A dealer service call will cost the price of several maybe all new battery cables.
 
Went back out this morning and confirmed no starter engagement when placing the screw driver across the starter relay or the s terminal to the hot on the starter solenoid. I have 6v in both batteries still.
I have 12 volts at the alternator, the relay, and the solenoid with the key off, and 10v at each with the key turned on (turned on but not cranking). Is that a normal voltage drop?

I will work on pulling all the battery cables this weekend and inspecting/replacing.

One final thought.... Could I be looking at a bad starter after all this? Is there any way to test that?

Appreciate the help Jim.
 
Just out of curiosity, any idea what the voltage drop should be when cranking, or trying to crank the engine? Would be curious to test that as well
 

I'm confused- I've got a 67 3020D and mine was originally 24v with two 12v batteries. It is converted to 12v. Is this one converted to 22v but you are using 2 6s to get there? Wouldn't it be better to have 2 12s in parallel for more amps?
I built new cables for mibe from welder cable, and am working on relocating the battery as close to the starter as possible, long cables going back and forth under the floor is not ideal.
 
I believe we still have the original set up for wiring. There is a
battery box on either side of the tractor that folds up
underneath the floor. It holds the long skinny 6v batteries. From
what I have read on other posts seems like there were some
models that were 2 12s hooked together and some that were
two 6s but I dont know which models had what
 
Replaced all three battery cables on Saturday and she fired right up. The negative to the frame did not look so great, so suspecting that was the problem. Has started 5-6 times now including once today. Thank you guys so much for all the help! Tx jim and vv farms I think I owe you guys dinner!
 

Just use your voltmeter at the batteries to see what the voltage drops to when you crank it and report what you get for results. Voltage before and after cranking and voltage during cranking.
 

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