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1974 John Deere 510 Backhoe Engine Swap

L

ldegraw30

New User
First, it's great to be a part of the forum!

To the main point of this post ... I just picked up an old 1974 John Deere 510 backhoe. The machine came with a 4270DR-02 engine. Unfortunately, the block has a gaping hole in the driver's side (the reason the machine was taken out of service).

As part of the machine's purchase, I also received a John Deere 4239DF engine (out of a 1985 air compressor). I was told I could install the 4239 engine in place of the 4270 engine, but I am already seeing potential issues (motor mounts, starter and injection pumps on opposing sides, etc.).

The limited info I have been able to find on these engines leads me to believe they are both "300 series" engines. I have no doubt I can easily address the diffferences noted above. My main concern is whether or not flywheel/flexplate, bellhousing bolt pattern, and front engine mount to hydraulic pump are the same or can be relatively easily adapted?

I will obviously know more, once I get the bad 4270 engine out of the machine and can compare the two engines side-by-side, but any advance help/info is greatly appreciated.
 
Unfortunately, that is going to be a very difficult swap. The 510 was essentially a 3020 ag tractor, and the same issue is a problem with 3020s- there is no easy repower. The 270 was a decent engine, but
there are no new blocks out there, so rebuilding is expensive.

Repowering with the 239 will take a lot of creativity. It's been done in 3020s, and a Deere engine distributor offered a kit 30 years ago to address the engine mounts, bell housing and hydraulic pump mounts,
but again that was 30 years ago.

Finding a running 270 might be easier. Maybe.

I'm sorry to bring bad news. Hope you got the 510 cheap enough!
 

Ditto what coonie minnie stated 4270DR-02 engine are more scarce than the JD 300 series 4 cylinder engines(4239DF) you referred to. 4239DF requires a special flywheel & clutch housing plus other alterations to mate that engine to a JD 510 TLB.
 
Thank you both for the quick responses. I was afraid that was the feedback I was going to get. Probably the reason the P/O passed the project off to me. :roll:

Fortunately, I did get the machine cheap. I have been able to locate one (1) and only one used 4270 for sale so far ... but it's on the other side of the continent.

Sounds like I might be better off trying to sell the 4239DF. I hate to abandon the entire machine after having just picked it up, but .... might wind up a lesson learned.

No ideas on where the conversion kit might still be available?

Would I lose anything significant (overall operation of the machine) by converting to a 3020 gas engine? Looks like HP is slightly lower; not sure on torque.

This post was edited by ldegraw30 on 11/22/2022 at 10:18 am.
 
If this is an occaisonal user, a gas transplant might be a good way to go. You could probably find a good gas engine easily. There's much
discussion on here about which carb would be best.

the gas engine will be fine for digging. Pushing dirt might be a little limited. The diesel is a little limited in that manner, that's a
heavy unit for the power it has. Go up a hill in road gear and you might find yourself downshifting.

I have a 500C, pretty similar to 510. they are a good machine.
 
Don't know where you are located, but a guy on here called tomstractorsandtoys probably has a gas engine laying around...
 

This machine is probably going to spend the rest of its life on my small (4 acre) property doing mostly small tasks (digging a foundation for my future garage, digging a septic tank hole, digging a water line, moving small amounts of dirt, etc. I'm not worried about having any significant travel speed. It sounds like a gas engine might be a good way to go for my purposes.

I'm located in central Utah and have resigned myself to the fact, that I will probably either have to pay shipping costs or travel to pickup an engine. I REALLY appreciate the help I'm getting here already! I would love to talk to the gentleman you're referring to and see what he has available and what kind of deal could be arranged.
 

System doesn't seem to want to allow me to send tomstractorsandtoys a PM. Do you have a good way to contact him? Thanks again.
 
You need to change the rear plate on your 300 series engine with one from a 4030, early 4050, or european 4040.
You also need the front pump support from one of those tractor. The 4030 or 4050 is stronger and will hold your front frames better. You will have to adapt the frames to adapt to the hydraulic pump.
There is no cast 4 cylinders oil pan that will fit this. Not an issue, but you really want to make a big plate bolted under the flywheel with 2 holes at the bottom to hold 2 bars going to the hydraulic support.

Other option would be to install a clutch housing from a Deere 2520 powershift. That would be labor intensive, but not necessarly super ecpensive. Clutch housings were about 250-350 few years ago.

Last, you can stretch the frame and put any Deere 400 series 6 cylinders.
That one might be the best if you like to weld and fab.

This post was edited by fdt860 on 11/24/2022 at 12:59 pm.
 

Thanks again guys (all of you). Responses were super quick, and I now know pretty much what all of my options are. That is huge! Just finished unbolting everything on the damaged 4270 in preparation for engine removal ... but looks like there's no way I'm getting away from separating the front bucket from the rest of the machine, since the engine-to-frame bolt bosses sit within the channeled frame rails. Don't suppose any of you have an tricks to get it out without the extra work?
 
If you have a hoist (or another big tractor or eccavator, but this is unsafe...) , you could hang the rear of the tractor by lifting the loader mast all the way up and roll the engine with the front axle and frame rails, after removal of the bolts between clutch housing and engine .
The loader support should be attached to the chassis with just one bolt on each side and can slide to the rear.


You can decide to slide front axle with frame rails, then engine, or you can remove them together. On a regular 3020, the fastest way is to slide the front (detach hydraulic pump support and hydraulic pipes, disconnect water hoses, steering pipes, fuel lines, wiring harness, frame rail bolts and slide all that with the front axle. then remove engine

If you have the backhoe on it, the tractor could tip to the rear. Put a jack, or railroad ties under the backhoe.
 
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