51 Model A timing

rjgogo

New User
I lost timing on the tractor. Long story but I did get it running kind of. It would run for a few minutes and then die out. It's not the carb as it is clean as new and the tank has been out and lined.

Anyway, a few years ago I was working to get it running better and someone mentioned the governor could be the issue, so I blindly took the cover off and the gear popped out. I got busy and drained the tank and carb and let it sit. Now I finally have some time to go back to it. I can find the timing mark on the governor gear but I can't seem to locate it on the cam gear to re install it in the proper place. I have turned the flywheel and looked and looked for the mark but nothing.

There are punch marks on the flywheel at the LH Impulse and LH exhaust open but not sure how that relates other than it does somehow.

Could the timing mark be on the inside of the cam gear? I have a cheap endoscope that may allow me to look at the back of the gear and I did see a star cast in it.

Right now just trying to find a way to get it back together in the right way. I have seen mention of the marks but can't find it. Also, the bearing at the end of the governor was dry as a bone.

Once I get that done I can try to diagnose the short run time. I would like to get this running again. The tractor was my grandfathers and last probably used in the 80s but found its way into my garage when it had to be moved from where it was sitting in a barn. Still questioning that decision. ;-) It would be nice to get it running again and maybe I could use it for something.
 
Do as per pictures and procedure.......

Do you own a service manual???

Bob..
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First thing is to make sure you remove the magneto or dist. off the RH. side or else you risk breaking them !
Then put engine to # 1 TDC and install gear so the slot of mag. drive is horizontal.
 
Thanks a ton!, I went and looked and I found the manual but still a bit confused. It says to match the mark on the Gear cover or Gear case. I found the cover and did not know the center section came out so easy and I see the mark there but it always helps to get a little guidance on the procedure to clarify.

Also, I will take off the distributor on the other side as well to view the slots. Get that now.

Finally is left cylinder is the one on the left side as you are sitting the the drivers seat looking towards the front the the tractor?

I can pull the plug to ensure TDC but how do i know if it is TDC on compression or exhaust? I take it "impulse" is compression and TDC firing. I take it I get that info from the flywheel but where is that on the wheel when I turn it or is that from the other side of the governor. Is it really as easy as that? I am just old enough to know how points work and I am not a young man.

Everyone says new cars are harder to work on but I find them easier. just plug in a bi directional scan tool and you know everything. This is back to basics high school shop and that has been a very long time ago.

Finally, looking in there, it seems the weights on the governor are a bit marred up. Don't know why that is.

Ill get on this but probably not until the weekend, thanks for the input. Really appreciate it. I look forward to getting it up and running again not that I finally have some time this winter.
 
"[b:654c4848f0][i:654c4848f0]I take it I get that info from the flywheel but where is that on the wheel[/i:654c4848f0][/b:654c4848f0]"

Reviewed the [b:654c4848f0]OPERATOR’S MANUAL No. OM-R2002R JOHN DEERE MODEL “A” SERIES (SERIAL No. 648000 AND UP) TRACTOR[/b:654c4848f0] in the [b:654c4848f0]IGNITION SYSTEM[/b:654c4848f0] section under the [b:654c4848f0]Installing Magneto on Tractor[/b:654c4848f0] topic on pages 34-35.

"[i:654c4848f0]Installing the magneto after it has been removed from the tractor can be done easily as follows: First remove the spark plug on the flywheel side.

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Place your finger over the hole and rotate the flywheel in the running direction until you feel a pressure of air in the cylinder. Continue turning the flywheel slowly until the punch mark stamped on the flywheel hub, lines with the “V” grove on the flywheel guard.

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In this position the slot in the coupling on the governor shaft will be horizontal.

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Next secure a short piece of wire and insert one end in the upper terminal of the distributor cap on the magneto, bend the other end around within 1/8-inch of some metal part of the magneto.

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Hold the magneto solidly in the same upright position as when mounted on the tractor.

Grip the driving lug on the impulse coupling firmly and turn the impulse slowly in a left-hand direction (counter-clockwise). Stop instantly when impulse trips and spark occurs between end of wire and magneto frame. When impulse trips, driving lugs on the magneto coupling will be in a horizontal position.

Replace magneto and gasket on the governor case, making sure the impulse coupling lugs engage slots on the governor drive coupling.

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A gasket must be used between bolting flanges. After tightening the two cap screws firmly with fingers, rotate the top of the magneto toward front of tractor as far as possible. Then rotate the flywheel one complete turn and line the punch mark on flywheel hub exactly with the “V” groove on the flywheel guard.

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Now tap the top of the magneto toward the rear of the tractor a little at a time until the impulse trips.

Tighten the cap screw holding magneto to governor case and install spark plug cables. Left hand spark plug cable must be installed in upper distributor cap terminal.

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[b:654c4848f0]Caution: Whenever adjustments are made on the tractor engine, remove the spark plug cables from spark plugs and battery ground cable to prevent accidental starting.[/b:654c4848f0][/i:654c4848f0]"

Hope this helps.
 
If you have a distributor like you mentioned the dieing after a few minutes could be the condenser. Second guess is the coil. Both of them normally get warm with use but if they are on their last gasp either one of them will short out and quit after warmup and you will have no spark. just a suggestion.
 
There should be marks on the cam
shaft gear and the gov. gear visible when you have the cover off. Either a dot or inverted V's. Until you have found these and got them aligned, you won't get the tractor timed.
 
I don't think there is a mark on the governor gear for timing it, that is where the horizontal slot for driving the mag/distributor comes into play. One tooth off will not be horizontal. You can tell which TDC is which by feeling of the push rods. If they spin easily then that's the BANG TDC, if they are both tight and not willing to spin freely with finger and thumb attempt that is the overlap TDC where the exhaust is closing and intake is opening. I don't think it really matters which TDC it is since they spark at both TDC anyway, just a thought.
 
Dan,
I don't understand why some folks have trouble knowing which side of a tractor is the left side or right side.

I bet they don't have any trouble telling the left or right side of a car or truck. It's not any different with a tractor.
 
Pete,

I do not mean to admonish anyone when responding to a post as I certainly do not know everything and visit this site as a source of knowledge and hope others do the same. I don't know if you remember "Clooney" but that guy knew more about the old tractors than anyone I remember and he helped EVERYONE no matter how trivial the question or how many times it had been asked. One other is John T and he has taken it one step further by have his electrical trouble shooting pre packaged to offer guys. I could go on as James Howell is another that offers state of the art explanations. The knowledge these guys share is what brings me here.
 
These pics are of my 70G std. gov gear and cam shaft gear (I think that's correct) as I was working on rebuilding the PS pump and had the gov removed.


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Thank you all very much for the input, really appreciate it. James and Dan, Thanks for the pictures. James the ones you posted make it all pretty clear, Dan and Mark-Ia, The tractor is still all together except for the cap over the governor. I can find the V on the governor but not on the cam gear but I think with all the other info I should be able to get it right.

As for the which side is which question, I realize it seems kind of stupid but I would rather be overly sure at this point. I assumed it was the same as a car but I think we have all heard or seen the ASSUME parsed out as three words. Just wanted to be 100% sure and I know there were clues with the distributor on the RH side.

Lee, from what you are saying it sparks on both cycles, that is just like my other 2 cylinder in the garage but that one is smaller on my motorcycle. and Fixerupper, the condenser is pretty new but that does not mean much, the coil is old as the tractor I think, I will cross that bridge later. Do I need a positive ground coil or just reverse the wiring?

All, Thank you again very much for the input and guidance on this. It is all pretty new/old to me. I have not worked on old school engines in a very long time. Ill get on this this weekend after I get some kerosene to heat up the garage.
 
Dan,

I certainly agree with your comments about Clooney, John T and James Howell. Other great contributors were Duane Larson and F.I.T.

Having said that, I don't see how your comments apply to what I said about some folks not being able to figure out which side of their tractor is the left or right side.
 
Just reverse the coil wiring. Positive ground battery/positive terminal of the coil goes to the distributor. Negative ground battery/negative terminal on the coil goes to the distributor. I agree with the guys the Deere experts they mentioned are well worth listening to.
 

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