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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
:

Starter spins wrong direction..

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Randy G

08-05-2020 23:12:39




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I have 2 Delco 1107165 6v starters for a 420 430. One spins correctly-CCW. The other spins CW (clokwise)What would cause this and whats the fix? The one that spins CW did not spin at all when received. I installed a new stud, new brush plate w/new brushes, springs etc. Now it spins great but the wrong direction CW, so the drive does not kick out. I reversed connections from the battery and it spins CW either way.

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wore out

08-09-2020 10:42:41




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 Re: Starter spins wrong direction.. in reply to Randy G, 08-05-2020 23:12:39  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Delco starters were used on lots of stuff, likely the end plate/brush holder was used on many applications.



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brownie450

08-08-2020 04:34:33




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 Re: Starter spins wrong direction.. in reply to Randy G, 08-05-2020 23:12:39  
Interesting read.
My guess is that the new brush holder/ end plate
might be for a starter that was used on a combine
engine, since the starter is on the opposite side
of the flywheel in that application.
Jim



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buickanddeere

08-07-2020 11:42:02




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 Re: Starter spins wrong direction.. in reply to Randy G, 08-05-2020 23:12:39  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeChanged the polarity of the rotor.



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Randy G

08-06-2020 17:16:47




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 Re: Starter spins wrong direction.. in reply to Randy G, 08-05-2020 23:12:39  

Well I did drill the brush plateframe. It had indentations on the inside of the new plate as to where to dill. Rotated it 90 degrees and SUCCESS!Spins CCW and drive kicks out like it should.

John T, can you explain to me why and how moving the brush plate 90 degrees makes the starter reverse? Send me an email if desired.



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John T

08-06-2020 18:37:30




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 Re: Starter spins wrong direction.. in reply to Randy G, 08-06-2020 17:16:47  
RANDY IF YOU SWAPPED WIRES from one brush to the other to me that gets the same result as if you rotated the brush holder ninety degrees> what you have done is change the relationship of the field and armature< that make any sense ?? if not i will take another crack at it lol The fields have a certain north south magnetic polarity but with the brushes which pass current through the armature wire swapped or rotated that chamges their north south magnetic polarity so she turns the other direction SOMETHING LIKE THAT

John T

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Randy G

08-06-2020 16:54:57




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 Re: Starter spins wrong direction.. in reply to Randy G, 08-05-2020 23:12:39  
I don't think you can polarize a starter,can you?



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Russ from MN

08-06-2020 14:22:40




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 Re: Starter spins wrong direction.. in reply to Randy G, 08-05-2020 23:12:39  
My buddy got one back from a repair shop once that did that, we switched the wires around to the brushes and it worked fine.



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buickanddeere

08-06-2020 13:20:41




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 Re: Starter spins wrong direction.. in reply to Randy G, 08-05-2020 23:12:39  
Reverse the polarity of the fields or reverse polarity of the rotor , but not both to reverse the rotation.



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John T

08-06-2020 11:22:04




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 Re: Starter spins wrong direction.. in reply to Randy G, 08-05-2020 23:12:39  
Randy, Indeed its EITHER the 90 brush rotation or else the wire connections got swapped that made it turn the opposite direction. Im sure you can figure it out.

John T



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wore out

08-06-2020 09:13:09




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 Re: Starter spins wrong direction.. in reply to Randy G, 08-05-2020 23:12:39  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

"So the 90 degree difference is the problem? "

Yes.

Can you drill new bolt holes in the brush holder casting?



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Randy G

08-06-2020 11:42:20




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 Re: Starter spins wrong direction.. in reply to wore out, 08-06-2020 09:13:09  
I'd try driiling new holes but its 1/4 " cast iron. Afraid drilling it by hand would render bad accuracy. If I had a drill press I'd try. The old frame was wollered out causing the armature to "flop around" when spinning. It had an oiler and no bushing. Guna try to ream out old frame and install a bushing 1st. Then try drilling new holes. Always wondered if a starter could be made to reverse direction. Thanks for the education and advice.

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John T

08-06-2020 13:08:54




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 Re: Starter spins wrong direction.. in reply to Randy G, 08-06-2020 11:42:20  
"Always wondered if a starter could be made to reverse direction"

Randy, and now you know, congratulations, its quite simple actually. Good luck with the drilling

John T



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Randy G

08-06-2020 08:27:30




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 Re: Starter spins wrong direction.. in reply to Randy G, 08-05-2020 23:12:39  
I did notice the new end frame(brush plate) connections were 90 degrees off. Its the only way the thru bolts would line up w/the nose cone. So thats the reason it spins backwards? The + connections(insulated from the frame) were where the - connections were compared to the old one. I did wire it up to the coils correctly. So the 90 degree difference is the problem?



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John T

08-06-2020 05:08:02




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 Re: Starter spins wrong direction.. in reply to Randy G, 08-05-2020 23:12:39  
Randy< being the starter is an electromagnetic field versus a permanent magnet the only way to reverse its direction is to reverse the orientation of the fields and armature (BRUSHES) so if the brush plate is 180 out or its wiring connections were swapped that could be the problem.

John T



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wore out

08-06-2020 04:39:49




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 Re: Starter spins wrong direction.. in reply to Randy G, 08-05-2020 23:12:39  
The brush holder needs to be somehow rotated 90 in relation to the field coils/"belly" of the starter. (90 in either direction from where it is.

Did you change the complete cast iron "end frame"? It's possible the one you installed has the locating down 90 from where it needs to be.



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