john deere draft control vs. case/massey/ih??

I have wondered for a while now why the john deeres do not lift the 3 point hitch under load like a case, massey, ih, ?? I have ran plenty of john deere 20 series, 30 series,40series, 60 series, and case 70 series 90 series, and masseys and IH. In the same soil, pulling the same 4 bottom plow,or the same ripper, the john deere system seems to have absolutely no change in pulling, on any of the deeres I have ran, like meaning a 70 series case if I max out the load control for maximum up lift on the implement under load, the implement almost won't even go into the ground, then I back it off slightly and the draft does it's job perfectly, allowing the implement to just cruise and get into shale or rock,tractor lifts. Same as a 90 series case or IH or massey.

On JD draft, I move the draft from min to max and no change under load, No lift at the lift arms. I have the service manual and set the adjustments by their spec,but still no avail, on my tractors or anyones. The dealers here say that our soil is so much more difficult than what these systems were developed for, therefore on case systems they need to "tighten them up" to get performance, Now on JD, they tell me that the system is not made to be truly load sensing, but more "load sensing at position" meaning that if you set the lift arm position lever to all the way lower, the JD will only provide load control at the very bottom, and if you are plowing and the rockshaft is say 1/3 of the way from the bottom, the rockshaft control lever in the cab needs to correspond with the position of the rockshaft. This is fine until you drop the front end of the tractor off a little hill and the ripper lifts out of the ground then you drop it then raise it, Has anyone goten true load control sensing to work on the JD 20-30-40-50 series like 4040, 4230, 4320, 4020, 4250, 4440,4430, and on? just curious. I have a very hard time that Every one I have ran doesn't work, but it seems like the case. Thanks.
 

It's been over 40 yrs since I adjusted the L/D mechanism on JD 10-50 series rowcrop tractors BUT IRRC the L/D system operated just fine if adjusted correctly following their correct tech manual. I have no experience with the Case,MF or IHC depth controls or plowing with them either. I have plowed some very tough ground around my local area with JD tractors & had no problem raising the plows.
 

I just remembered that IMHO the maximum or depth(D) setting is too sensitive for my satisfaction so I always operated L/D lever closer to the middle of adjustment range when plowing with a 3 pt attached plow.
 
Thanks for the reply jim, in my experience the load and depth setting makes little difference, so I want to tinker with mine and see if I can get it to actually work. The lift is spectacular, like if I want to lift it up and pack it around, but for me I set the lever to max (load) and tractor will spin tires and lose power, set to position control It does the same thing. Glad someone understands and gave me hope I want to tinker more and see if I can figure out what the issue is. The john deere mechanics claim that those tractors "didn't have much load control; even when new in our heavy wet irrigated soils" Supposedly the tractor gets more traction due to harder soil as well as the hitch pulls harder due to tougher soils making the draft sensing "Not agressive enough to lift that much weight, sucked into the hard soil" Thanks again for the comment.
 
what has anyone found on a non responsive load control to find a direction, assuming that the valve clearance is in spec, the lever makes full range of motion, and the rockshaft seems to not leak.
 
I do what the manual says as far as valve clearance, linkage adjustment, and the 9/16 nut inside, everything adjusts up and meets spec,
 
Check the length of the lift (rods) cant remember the proper name . If the rockshaft cyl is bottomed to get the plow in the ground (them being too short ) you loose some lifting power . Also if there are not enough weights on the front end the hitch wont lift as it was intended . If the front cant stay on the ground the plow just goes in deeper , have heavy soil it needs a full rack 8 wts on A 4020 and larger more horsepower tractors need much more .
 
thanks for the info. We are fully weighted, and then some. you have to be to handle a 4 bottom rollover; 8 bottoms, and a 7 shank v ripper you wont even lift without 600-800 pounds in front. The lift links are adjusted to lift/ lower so line of pull gives you both up and down, just in case your front drops or back rides upo over prairie dog hole, if the lift is always bottomed out, then every time you run over a clod the implement lifts up!!
 
maybe a worn part would do it? like a load control shaft? I have rebuilt the upper linkage and valves and not seen any change yet.
 
Wrong when the draft is working on a John Deere it works no matter how deep or shallow it is set . If it?s not working then you don?t have the control in the right position. It doesn?t work on my 3020 right now because I need to adjust the internal linkage but it works great on the 4020 it will lift so hard it will try to lift the front end with 15 John Deere suit case weights hanging off of it
 
of the 12-15 john deeres I have owned and used, draft never worked... not one single time, thanks for the info. Something must wear out in there anyone know what it is?
 
I have never had one that didn?t work until this 3020 I hope I can get if adjusted and working because it makes a big difference pulling a mounted plow or even a semi mounted plow sometimes it works to good and lifts to hard even with all those weights on
cvphoto18616.jpg
 
That is good,since that is how every other tractor works!! I can't believe that the load sensing is bad on every single tractor I have ever ran. Hard for me to imagine. As far as NOT SETTING RIGHT, I am afraid I know what I am doing. There is a problem and I need tofind it. The lever moves aroud and does it's thing, you can see inside the transmission theough the plug. The procedure for adjust is pretty simple.... goes as follows. I have almost memorized it from troubleshooting this problem so many times on every tractor ever serviced, move selector to min (position control) and add 10" tool or vise grip and measure 3/16" travel to determine valve clearance, next adjust to obtain, then remove plug in trans, set to load control (all the way up on lever) and run nut all the way clockwise the set position lever to where front edge is at "1" and hitch should lift. If no lift, adjust linkage to obtain lift. Then set lever to where rear edge is at "1" and then turn nut inside counter clockwise until it just starts to lift.

On the last 4 or 5 tractors I performed this to, it adjusted perfectly, right to spec. and slowly rotated nut and hitch just slowly started to lift. I would love to pick some brains about this "common" problem I would fix these tractors but I don't know where to go. The problem is every local farmer I have asked just said the JD draft didn't work in our very difficult soils, since case is adjustable via spring tension, it could be made to work. The case dealer actually told me that to set the preload to operate in out soil, they maxed out the porta power pulling so hard to measure spring tension, and told me that that reason was the soil was more difficult than anywhere in the country, the tractor was able to obtain better traction and would just max out the draft and the hitch would not even lower into the ground at factory spec.
 
the manual has no trouble shooting, and therefore I am lost as where to go. The load control shaft wears badly, if mine is worn, would that cause the problem?
 

Nut on L/D mechanism inside diff case should be adjusted with 3 pt control lever 1-3/8''/1-5/8'' from fully raised position with L/D knob in """maximum or L position""". I failed to see where you mentioned moving L/D knob to maximum or L position before final adjustment.
 
thats what I said... set to load control when nut is ran all the way in, all the way up and locked on lever or maximum draft control. Service manual doesn't give measurement, gives put lever at "1" to adjust.
 
the adjustment isn't going to help, there is a problem. If noone has any ideas I will tear it down and find it. I do know how to perform adjustment, procedures are pretty clear. Nut inside transmission needs set with draft lever in max or load control or all the way up or maximum draft or whatever terminology. I bet someone has had this happen, but I just need to brain storm and find it.
 
https://archive.org/details/John_Deere_Tractor_4040_4240_TM1181_SM_011080_Technical_Manual_

link to manual... This is the procedure I always use, let me know if anyone has any input. Thanks for the help, atleast I can start looking for more problems, it is difficult when the entire system meets spec and adjusts properly, and doesn't leak down where to go, just start at the bottom and work up I guess.
 
I will try a re adjustment, but I bet there is a problem somewhere. If anyone has had these issues and troubleshot them, information would be great. thanks for the replies.
 
I climbed under one tractor and found that there was slack in the load control shaft and bushings so I need to order parts and do that job and see if performance improves any. Thanks again for all the information.
 
If you can have full range of rockshaft operation with lever in D, LD or L, then your adjustment is not the issue.
- As far as the way this works, a Massey rockshaft control is much finer than a Deere. The deere is called "Mixer", wherever the massey is a true draft control.

In other words, on a massey you can drop the position lever all the way and use the draft control lever to lift and lower the implement.

On a Deere, you have to lower carefully the position lever only until your implement touches the ground. That means about 2-1/2 inches of travel from upper position if you are in L position. Every movement of 1/16 inch at the position lever makes a huge difference in plowing depth.
So the Deere system is very imprecise to use in Depth position, but you will have to deal with it. Maybe 90% of your problems are because you are coming from a Massey 1100 or simiar, which has a much finer 3 point hitch control.
 
Well, massey and case have a much finer 3 point control... No doubt. Yes 1105 massey has a very sensitive control, but once understood the performance is fenominal.. Can be made to do anything. JD has never worked the same. Maybe If I rebuild the thing it will work like we have readabout, but why do the wellworn masseys and cases still work??? Better design I guess. I was at the dealer today and asked the mechanic that was a case mechanic for a long long time, he said if you want a 4440 draft to work the same as a 1070 case or a 2090 case, good luck. He said they aren't made to worklike that, and furthermore there is no actual adjusment on the tension, youget what you get, and hope for the best. just like said in other replies, it either works too good or doesn't work. Fine. But on a case, that can be adjusted, to work more sensitive or less sensitive, lust like the massey with the turn dial through the back window as well as the position of the top link.
 
30 series Deere up have a dial you turn not a lever . as for working like a case if it did I?d send it to scrap .
 
well, we have raised many thousand tons of nicecrops and even certified crops under the wheels of case machines, I realize this is the JD forum, but if you can't make a case get the job done, send it over to me, I'll show you how that big long stroke engine will pull away from a deere 466t all day long. Stroke makes a case. Case has the only engine that you can be pulling in the gear you run in, cut throttle all the way back to 1000 rpm and throttle back up and it won't kill it. Try it with a JD or a massey. that 466 deere will stall at less than 1500 you better look for a new gear. Furthermore, compare a case 2090 and a deere 4240... had both, case less gears and no turbo, 4240 more gears and more HP and the case 2090 would flat eat a 4240 for lunch, just eat one. pull it right into shame, go back to the barn and hide.
 

I've operated my JD 4255 many hrs and never found the need to lower engine rpm's under 1500 while pulling a load. JD 4255 operators manual states not to lug engine below 1500 rpm.

I'll bet one would be hard pressed to find any newer tractor with a big/long stroke engine.
 
I?ve got one that doesn?t work and it sucks but the internal linkage isn?t adjusted either .three point only works when I?m the depth control position which basically turns the draft control off and leaves the draft sensing up to the operator and Is for implements with gauge wheels or when you don?t want any draft sensing . I am replacing the front drawbar support so I am replacing all the bushings in it and in the transmission housing
 

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