John Deere 45 loader cylinder packings/JD 60 hyd pump

pmarkel

Member
Got around to mounting a 45 loader on a 55' JD 60 yesterday morning. I had purchased the two at a sale in November and worked some of the kinks out of the tractor last month till I was sufficiently pleased with its performance (for now at least).

However, when I had hooked everything up (in the same manner that I have the 45 loader on my B with the hoses run out the side of the powrtol) the 60 struggled to pick the loader up. I put more oil in and it lifts it, but the loader sags down pretty quick and the pump is making a lot of hissing air noises up in the front. I figure its pretty likely that the packings are shot in the cylinders and judging by the small pool of oil collecting under the hyd. pump I would say it could use some attention.

Are cylinder kits still available for the 45 or do I need to take the cylinders to a shop? I looked over the parts manual and it seems that most of the orings and bushings are still available for the live pumps on the 50/60/70 but that the shaft and gears are not. Has anyone rebuilt one of these recently? Thanks,


Pete
 

Boom cylinder for low pressure cylinder kits from JD are AC12250 Hydraulic Cylinder Kit ADD 49.19 USD

Same high pressure boom cylinder kits(2250 psi)
AC12249 Hydraulic Cylinder Kit - ADD 75.52 USD
 
(quoted from post at 07:47:58 01/01/19)
Boom cylinder for low pressure cylinder kits from JD are AC12250 Hydraulic Cylinder Kit ADD 49.19 USD

Same high pressure boom cylinder kits(2250 psi)
AC12249 Hydraulic Cylinder Kit - ADD 75.52 USD

thank you Jim,

How do I know whether I need a low pressure or high pressure kit? Thanks,

Pete
 

Tractor boom mounting brackets are different for higher pressure boom cylinders than low pressure cylinders.

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Pete,

If your cylinders need repacked they will leak. You will have to raise and lower the loader several times then check oil level and add as needed. You will have to do this several
times to flush all air from the system. I am assuming you are using the two hose system not the one hose system used on the 20 and 30 series. My advise to you is to locate your
leaks. Do not just assume the pump needs rebuilt. You (and me) need to fab up hose and pressure gauge to check the pressure of your system to get a true picture of what is
happening. I have been wrestling with this same problem with my 50 for quite some time. Having the service manual SM-2011 will help. HTH
 
It quit raising much at all. Think the piston seal in the hydraulics is bad as when it was lifting it would not stay. So many problems with this tractor (50) I just had to walk away for now. Got another loader in the mean time and put it back on the 70D that was my original loader tractor. Has a home made boom that is useful in the woods to lift tree tops .


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(quoted from post at 10:17:30 01/01/19) Pete,
Dan,

Thanks for the advice. I took the tractor out today and spent maybe 10 minutes raising and lowering the loader. After a few times up and down the loader began to stay in raised position the way it should without sagging. However, the hissing noise in the platform hoses/pump did not subside much. The powrtrol has plenty of oil, and yes I use the two hose system (I figure if you get much oil leaking past the ram in the cylinder most of it should get returned to the tractor instead of out the breather plug).
 
And a related question, on my other 60 tractor, theres a shaft that sticks out of the governor case, (research tells me the idler shaft for the hyd. pump) that occasionally turns whether the pump is engaged or disengaged and weeps a little bit of oil. The hydraulics work nice on that 60 and it is fairly low hr (about 3500) so I would rather not tear into something needlessly. Is this something I have to worry about? Thanks,

Pete
 
Pete, that idler shaft that you refer to, on the left side of the governor case, is NOT supposed to spin. That spinning indicates that the shaft keeper has failed or is not there, and probably also means that the idler gear is gaulded to the shaft. You'll wreck the governor case if you run it like that for very long.
 
If it "occasionally turns", you can hopefully remove the hydraulic pump and sheared shaft keeper (in the governor housing under the pump) and slip the shaft out of the idler gear. "Occasionally turns" sounds encouraging to me, but the ones that I've seen turning were gaulded to the shaft and required removing the governor housing and maybe even torching the gear off of the shaft in the worst case. When you take it apart, you can add an oil line to lube the shaft and end future problems. There's an "O" ring that fits the shaft at the exposed end. Here's a picture of what I did to fix the idler shaft problem. This is a common fix. If you do this - flip the loop down rather than up like I have it. It'll clear the pump better.
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Pete, if you need parts for your pump, you'll find that some are no longer available. For instance, the bushing for the idler gear. Deere wants you to buy the gear and bushing together, but you may only need the bushing. If you look around at the other bushings in the pump, you'll see that one of the internal bushings will fit and is available, but it's a tiny bit too long. I bought that bushing and dressed the length down by hand and pressed it into my good idler gear.

Also - the pumps from other models may bolt to your governor case, but the end plates may not fit your hydraulic lines. The end plate part number must be matched, or your lines will not fit up. The end plate bolt pattern changes too, so a newer or older end plate might not fit your pump body. The reason I'm saying all this is - used parts sellers often advertise the pumps and pump parts as "Fits all 2 cylinder tractors". This is not true.

Those old pumps are pretty forgiving. My early 50 pump had the driven gear bushing worn through and the fixed shaft damaged, and it was still quiet as a mouse and seemed to work perfectly for the three point work that I use it for.
 
If the oil leaks past the cylinder pistons, the loader may stay in position (once pressures equalize on both sides of the piston) since the area of the rod is now acting as the "piston". Raise the loader a bit and crack the hose (crack, not remove) that is on the retract side of the cylinder (rod side) and catch the oil in a bucket. If the loader drifts down, blown piston packings. BE CAREFUL....there may be very high pressures in that hose if the packings are blown as the rod is holding it up, not the piston.
 
Also - there is a spacer or thrust washer on each side of the idler gear. There is a tab on each washer to prevent spinning. As you pull the shaft out of the governor housing, don't let the washers drop down into the engine. You can hang onto the tab with pliers.
 
You mention "a lot of hissing air noises up front". Is that coming from the power steering pump since you say "up front"? The pump to power the hydraulic loader is right above the engine and I just wondered if you are "mixing" the 2 pumps?
 
"pool of oil collecting under the hydraulic pump" adds to my comments before that is this really the hydraulic pump for the power steering? Not sure that "oil could pool" under the engine hydraulic pump due to its location right on top of the "flat surface" of the engine.
 
(quoted from post at 15:55:26 01/02/19) "pool of oil collecting under the hydraulic pump" adds to my comments before that is this really the hydraulic pump for the power steering? Not sure that "oil could pool" under the engine hydraulic pump due to its location right on top of the "flat surface" of the engine.
on,

I am talking about the cam driven live pump that powers the loader, not the power steering pump. The oil, not too much but some, is dripping out the lower metal hose (suction hose?) At the pump and collecting on the main case. Probably just an oring but there's a lot of hissing and vibration in those hoses and I just wanted to see if that was normal.
 
(quoted from post at 09:27:21 01/02/19) PJH, thanks for the advice. That's a clever addition you made with the oil line. Did you just run a tee out of the oil pressure line to guage? What size is the hole you tapped in the governor case, 1/8 not? Why does it need a loop? If the gear is free on the shaft will I be able to put them back in with a new keeper or do I need to find good used replacements? Thanks,

Pete
 
Pete, I can't take credit for the idea. An old machinist suggested it to me, and I think it might have been in the old JD service bulletins too. The idler shaft is drilled for lubrication, but Deere did not provide an oil passage in the governor case for it.

Yes - it is tee'd off of the oil pressure line. I'm not good at tubing sizes - I used the same size as the original fitting in the engine block. I've never drilled one without removing the governor case, but I guess it can be done. The drill chips would worry me - maybe a shop vac or a blob of grease to catch the chips? There's a convenient dimple to center your bit in the bottom of the blind hole for the idler shaft.

A loop will tolerate vibration better than a straight piece of tubing, plus it makes it much easier to align the threads. You can imagine a straight piece without the loop - it will either be exactly right or it will be wrong.

You'll have to look the shaft, gear and bushing over to see if they are usable. Last time I checked, the gear with new bushing was still available from Deere. To save a few bucks, you can use a new Deere bushing for the pump body. It will have to be shortened just a little bit. I used a belt sander and lots of cooling to shorten the Deere bushing before I pressed it in. I'm a skinflint, and retired, but it's a tradeoff. Time or money. John Deere Parts used to (and might still) have a feature that would give you the exact dimensions of lots of their bushings. The idler shaft is 1" diameter, and I went from there and noticed a correct inside/outside diameter bushing inside the pump.

Hopefully the shaft and gear will come out without removing the governor case.
 
(quoted from post at 08:15:57 01/03/19) PJH,

I took the pump off today and the gear and shaft are free and the shaft looks fine to me. However, the retainer pin and outer thrust washer were nowhere to be found when I opened things up. I also found that the pin will not come all the way out because the flywheel is in the way. If the retainer pin did not shear in the shaft, can I just replace the missing washer and keeper and call it a day? Thanks,

Pete
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I guess someone just didn't put the retainer pin back in? Now I understand why you said it occasionally turns.

Your shaft and gear look good to me from what I can see. That shaft doesn't have the paint burned off like some I've seen. I think I'd do as you suggested - a new "O" ring, thrust washer, retainer pin, gasket and seals for the pump lines. There's also a little "O" ring around the little shifter shaft - while you have it off.

Makes you wonder where that other washer is, ha. Sometimes it's best to let sleeping dogs lie.

The first time I ever took one apart, both of the thrust washers stuck to the oil film on the sides of the gear and they came out with the gear. I didn't even know they were there until I laid the gear down and one fell off. That was 35 years ago, working in a drafty old building on a cold night with 1 100 watt light bulb in the rafters and a nearly dead flashlight between my teeth. Things have really changed. Now I don't have any (real) teeth.
 
(quoted from post at 19:18:00 01/03/19) PJH,

Thanks for the help. I thought the same thing--where ever that washer fell it did so harmlessly (at least for now). The tractor runs well with good oil pressure so I guess it can't being doing too much harm. As for your comment about a one light building 35 yrs ago--the shed that this 60 is in got it's first light this fall and that's right where the tractor is parked luckily. As they say, much changes but more stays the same.
Thanks again,


Pete
 
Can anyone post detailed directions on how to add pressure oil to that Powr Trol shaft? How hard of a job, how much disassembly required? Wanting to keep it in mind for my 60.

Thanks,
Brandon
 

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