301a wont crank over

I haveca 301a gas tractor and ran fine 2 weeks ago. Yesterday it wouldn't crank. Only hear solenoid clicking so i by a new starter and same thing. I even use jumper cables to go directly to the starter and same results.
The difference is that is geeting colder and around 25 degrees. The hydraulic pump is connected to the crankshaft and wasnt sure if the fluid was to thick to turn over but it doesn't make sense.
Help pleeeeeeese.
 
Sometimes battery cables can trick you.
The cables can become corroded inside
the lead connectors.
 
(quoted from post at 20:04:14 11/15/18) Sometimes battery cables can trick you.
The cables can become corroded inside
the lead connectors.

But by bypassing the the battery cables and just using jumper cables from truck directly to starter should elimate the battery cable issue.
 
(quoted from post at 23:13:54 11/15/18)
(quoted from post at 20:04:14 11/15/18) Sometimes battery cables can trick you.
The cables can become corroded inside
the lead connectors.

But by bypassing the the battery cables and just using jumper cables from truck directly to starter should elimate the battery cable issue.

It is not cold enough here yet to have the oil stop it from turning, unless your oil is mainly water and it froze. How heavy are your booster cables? I ask as many booster cables now are only light gauge and won't work to really boost where they have to carry a lot of current. Is the battery fully charged? A bad battery can rob power from the boost.

Does it sound like the starter is engaging the ring gear or just the solenoid clicking? Did you try using a jumper cable between the two large posts on the solenoid to see if the started motor will spin? Do you still have the old starter? Will it spin if you connect the booster cables to it and jump the solenoid? If the old starter spins you may want to try turning the engine with a bar to see if something is bound up, before going further.
 
Check for faulty connections or wire damage to and from various safety switches such as transmission neutral and clutch depressed switches. Working on a 4630 with the same symptom and it NOT the $30 ignition switch ar58126. Solenoid you hear switching might be under the dash working as a supply knock out to various secondary systems that aren't needed during cranking as was found here and this part has nothing to do with the issue anyway. I finally found and wiggled the neutral switch wire near switch at sundown and it cranks again for the momrnt, so further tear down in that area to find out exactly what is defective is next. I suspect your issue is same one here.
 

If not already done I suggest to relocate battery ground cable from battery box to engine block or better yet starter mounting bolt. Did you move steering wheel rapidly from side to side while attempting to start engine?? JD offered a starter relay kit so to supply more voltage to starter solenoid during starting cycle or you could make up your own kit utilizing a $25 relay.

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I have Heavy Duty Jumper cables. I can Feel the the solenoid working and engaging into the flywheel. as i understand that by jumping directly to the starter with my jumper cables hooked to my truck then i am bypassing any safety switches and dash issues?

i gues my only option is too pull the new starter and try rotating with a pry bar unless any other ideas.
 
(quoted from post at 08:40:21 11/16/18) I have Heavy Duty Jumper cables. I can Feel the the solenoid working and engaging into the flywheel. as i understand that by jumping directly to the starter with my jumper cables hooked to my truck then i am bypassing any safety switches and dash issues?

i gues my only option is too pull the new starter and try rotating with a pry bar unless any other ideas.

When you hooked your cables directly to the starter did you use a jumper between the positive post on the solenoid and the small start terminal on the solenoid? That would bypass any safety switches and dash issues. If you used the switch to try it you still are trying to energize the solenoid through all the safety switches. Be sure you are in park or neutral when you directly jump at the solenoid. Tx Jim Has a good point about moving your ground cable if it is still on the battery box. Also about adding a relay/solenoid between the switch and starter solenoid if you don't have one now.
 
Sounds like it is time to take a few minutes and see if you can manually turn it with a bar. Turn it in the same direction the starter does (CW facing the front of the engine, CCW if facing the flywheel). If it doesn't turn you know you have deeper issues than the starter.
 

Looking forward, sitting on the seat it would turn to the left, counter-clockwise. Look at your fan, it should turn so the fan will pull air towards you.
 
DO NOT pull start it ! if it has a reverser or a hi lo you will do MAJOR damage to those systems.
 
UPDATE- took starter off and out the plugs and tried to turn motor over with prybar on the flywheel and nothing. Got a salamander heater and aimed at the tractor and wraped a big tarp around engine to keep heat in it and after 30 minutes i could spin it easily.

Did rain get into exhaust and run into a cylinder and iced it up?

Pretty strange
 
(quoted from post at 17:43:26 11/16/18) UPDATE- took starter off and out the plugs and tried to turn motor over with prybar on the flywheel and nothing. Got a salamander heater and aimed at the tractor and wraped a big tarp around engine to keep heat in it and after 30 minutes i could spin it easily.

That definitely sounds like it got water somewhere in it that froze up. Do you have a vertical exhaust stack and is it open? That would be the most likely way to get water in the engine. Another place to check would be to see if there is a drain in the bottom of the clutch housing and if there is, is it open. I think you can look into that area if you pop the tin cover plug on the left side of the housing. If water got in there up and around the flywheel/clutch and froze it might hold it from turning. It doesn't seem like some water in some of the oils would have stopped it from turning, but what is the condition of the hydraulic and transmission oil? Clear or milky? Before running it heat it up good with your space heater. If you haven't started it yet so the oils have still set for two weeks, crack the drain plugs in every compartment and see if you get any clear water when liquid starts to come out. If there is a lot of water in the oils some may have separated from the oil while setting.
 
I started the tractor and drove it into my sons heated garage. Ran great. I am going to drain the oil even though its all good looking and i will check the tranny fluid for moisture.
I will look for the clutch inspection cover and check for water
 
(quoted from post at 20:10:58 11/16/18) I started the tractor and drove it into my sons heated garage. Ran great. I am going to drain the oil even though its all good looking and i will check the tranny fluid for moisture.
I will look for the clutch inspection cover and check for water
My tractor has a reverser. Would it still have the clutch/flywheel inspection plate?
 
(quoted from post at 10:03:06 11/17/18) How could i tell if there is water in bottom of flywheel housing?

I can't tell you for sure if there is an opening. There often is. You will need to get under it and thoroughly check the area where the clutch housing meets the engine. There may be a small hole or slot at the joint or a short distance behind it. If you find such openings probe them with a wire or screwdriver to be sure it is open.
 
(quoted from post at 07:37:59 11/17/18)
(quoted from post at 10:03:06 11/17/18) How could i tell if there is water in bottom of flywheel housing?

I can't tell you for sure if there is an opening. There often is. You will need to get under it and thoroughly check the area where the clutch housing meets the engine. There may be a small hole or slot at the joint or a short distance behind it. If you find such openings probe them with a wire or screwdriver to be sure it is open.
Thanks Jim for all the help!!!!!!
 
I have a 301a gas loader tractor. I would tend to believe you still have connection problems. However if you suspect it to be stuck take starter off and prybar flywheel a little. Front pump does drain power from starting, but not that much. Cross starter out at solenoid maybe. Mine has had a tendancy to get water in hydraulic fluid and lock brakes if it sets outside, but I don't think it can lock tranny to keep engine from turning with clutch engaged. But just not likely to be locked up unless something unusual happened to engine.
 

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