3020 Gas- Help

ajhbike

Member
Recap:

Tractor ran great for 2 hours once I got it home and started brush hogging. It suddenly died out in the field.

*The fuel pump was spitting out the small hole in the side and I replaced it with a NAPA 5psi fuel pump. No luck wouldn't start.

*Removed the carb inlet screen and blew out a bunch of crud. No luck, wouldn't start.

*Changed the plugs. No luck, wouldn't start.

*Took the Zenith carb off and took it to a friend who completely cleaned out the inside...not professionally but it was full of crud. No luck, but it ran real rough and would die after 5 minutes or so.

*Removed the fuel load solenoid that had been disconnected for a long time and put in the tee handle manual adjuster. No luck although it does run smoother. It will run for 5 minutes or so and then it will die like it is out of fuel.

It will not start without shots of ether and will not remain running for more than 5 minutes or so. When I increase the throttle, it will falter and sometimes die. It seems like it is still a fuel issue. Could/should I:

*Change the fuel line from the tank to the fuel pump and from the fuel pump to the carb thinking the line is old and restricted?

*Change the oil...I read in the manual that this could cause a problem (I don't know how but ....)

*Buy a rebuilt carb

Any help here would be greatly appreciated!!!
John
 
Thank you! Actually no I have not checked...I do have a spark tester....I will put it on the list. Anything else? Points? I do have a new Tisco coil I could slap on as well.
 
When it quits is there still fuel in the carb bowl? Take the drain plug out and check .
If not the stand pipe in the tank may be plugging with crud .
 
I know when I pulled the carb yesterday it had fuel in it. I will disconnect the inlet and crank it to make sure there is fuel pumping. We checked that last week, but I will check again.

I was wondering about the line from the tank and if it was blocked....was wondering how to unblock....send a wire upstream?

I tried running with the tank cap off and no change.
 
Can you describe the stand pipe in the tank? Is it in the middle and how tall is it? Is it something I can fish around and send a wire through or is there typically a screen over it? That round tank is very different than my farmalls.

I will add that there doesn't appear to have a shut off valve at the outlet.
 
I see that there is the fill hole and another connection at the top....what is the connection for?

mvphoto23201.jpg
 
The stand pipe is on the fitting in the bottom of the tank it sticks up 2 inches so it
don't suck sediment off of the bottom of the tank. if it is plugging with something
floating in the tank. You could blow some air in the line back to the tank and maybe get
by til the tank goes empty then take the fitting out of the tank and clean out some crud
if that is the problem.
 
If that tank was used on a diesel the little plug would come out and a small return line
would be in that hole . Gas don't need that.
 
Yes, brought it home 3 weeks ago. It was a dog to start, but it ran really well as I said for a trip across town and a couple of hours of tough brush cutting...and then died.
 
When my gas tractor had those symptoms, it's was a petcock partially filled with bugs. While it was parked it would let enough fuel through to fill the line/sediment bowl. But it would only run for about 5 minutes before the supply could no longer keep up with the demand.
 
Hmm, that is interesting, but I put in a see through fuel filter before the pump and I didn't see any interruption in flow, but I am leaning towards fuel supply. I was dumb in that I put gas in the tank about 2/3 full thinking that the gravity force of it would help. I might be draining it all out to get at the tank connection. There may not be a standpipe at all since I don't see any shutoff valve...maybe just a nipple with a barb. But when I put the valve and filter in with a foot of flex line to the pump I got a pretty good bath.

I am going to check spark and flow to the carb next as well as the inlet screen. Thanks
 

I had a VERY similar problem with my 2010 gas Deere this past summer. I strongly suspect you have a restriction somewhere in the fuel like between the pickup and the carb.

My tractor would die under heavy load or when the engine "races" going down long hills. Then it would not restart for about a minute. Maddening.

I figured this out with my tractor by pulling the drain plug out of the bottom of the carb bowl and then catching the fuel in a measuring cup.

You should get a steady stream. It should flow evenly out of there with no "dribbling".

When I did this to my Deere 2010 when I was having the similar issue, I got only 3-4 ounces of fuel per minute to dribble out slowly. Not a smooth flow, more of a glug, glug, glug trickle of fuel. This did not seem right to me.

Turned out I had blockage all the way through the system. Finally enough gunk, dead bugs, etc plugged the system, plus there was an aftermarket fuel filter installed that was not a see-through so I suspect that was plugged solid.

After taking everything apart and cleaning the whole fuel line from the carb to tank, I re-tested the flow and I got over 16 ounces of fuel flow per minute at the carb bowl. Now I have an aftermarket shutoff valve and I added a clear plastic inline filter so I can see if gunk is building up in the filter, so my flow may be slightly more or less than yours would be, but at a guess I'd say any less than 6 ounces of gravity fuel flow per minute and I'd suspect line blockage.

After I did this, the tractor has run like the fine Swiss watch that the 2010 Deere is known to be.

Grouse
 
Great points, I had the same thing with a Super C and didn't connect...looks like I will be draining the tank this weekend. I think I will just run all flexible on both sides of the lift pump, thank you.
 
Alot of good advise on here.. The reason I asked about "new to you" is you dont know much about it yet or where its
been how old gas etc..

When I got mine years ago I bought from a dealer..I had issues with runnning and looked in the fill hole of fuel
tank with flash light.. couldnt believe what was in there... Baling Twine was just one of many things...LOL.. I took
the tank off and cleaned it out with hot water and solvent..

Sounds like your on the right path... clean the tank.. its the only thing left fuel wise for you to do..LOL

after that if still runs crappy start with distributor, etc. etc..
 
PO had it for 20 years and it was stored indoors...BUT I met with the mechanic before I bought it (he had to change the manifold before I would buy it) and he worked on it for all of the 20 years. It is a classic "do whatever to get it to run" so a lot of the wiring is all hacked up and the box of parts that came with it had a MS carb, water pump, distributor, exhaust manifold, etc...so a bunch of things were changed in the last few years. So, I know a bit, but not much about it. Fuel, fire and air is the trinity of tears so that is where I am at. This is much more complicated than my Farmalls, but interesting to see the advances made between the early 50's to '66. I mean wire harnesses and power steering...interesting stuff. Frustrating but I will eventually get it going good.

Gotta say....bush hogging with this beast vs the Super C is like night and day.
 
If you do decide to remove the tank to clean it take a marker and make lots of marks on the tank bands and the air cleaner. When reassembling you will be glad you did. Tom
 
That is great advice; I take things apart and make one-one, two-two-, three-three marks at every thing, on everything. MES IT VERY EASY TO REASSEMBLE.
 
Does it have an electronic ignition or the original points ignition? A failed condenser will act like a lack of fuel. A bad condenser may act ok till it gets hot.
 
It has points and a condenser. That is on the list after fuel lines, spark, and along with plug cables and coil. Thank you. The feedback has been fantastic....I went from ready to push it into Long Island Sound to very optimistic!
 
UPDATE:
I replaced the fuel line from the lift pump to the carb. It took a while to pump the gas over but it started and seemed to run pretty smooth. When I increased the throttle, it would hesitate, falter and then maybe continue on or die.

I didn't have time to check gas flow (3ozs/min vs 16 ozs/min) but it makes me wonder if the small needle in the carb (throttle jet?) or the nozzle is partially blocked. The guy who worked on the carb had put a piece of rod in the jet to block it I guess to see if he could lean it out. I removed the block the other day and quickly ran a wire up into it. It didn't go through and I could see a vague light looking up through it. I didn't give it much thought but I wonder if it is still a little blocked.

I will disconnect the fuel inlet to the pump tonight to see if there is good flow via gravity before I get into changing that line and do a good check into the tank to see if I see any crud in the tank.

Thoughts on the jet and nozzle? Thank you, John
 
Or could it be the vacuum pump in the carb? It seems to be in good shape.

I also wonder about the orifices that feed the jet and nozzle....
 
so once I verify spark with my tester, would you consider changing the coil? I have a new one I was thinking of slapping on.
 
Before throwing ANY parts at it, using a spark tester with spark gap, verify spark quality before and after it quits running.
 
No pride here....I don't know how to check the spark after it dies. I presume I would check the spark while I am turning it over but while it is running?
 
If you pull the center wire out of the distributor cap (the one coming from the coil) and hold it about 1/4" from a ground source and crank the tractor over you should get a good blue spark jumping. If the spark is good there do the same with a plug wire. Pull the spark plug, hook the wire on it and lay it against the block then crank it over. The spark should be blue not yellow or white.
 
okay, thanks. Or I could use my tester that would plug in to the dist cap wire and plug and see how it lights up rather than jump the spark?
 
Okay, I will do that tomorrow.

Question: the coil I have says "no External resister required" and the spare one I have says it has an internal resister. I am assuming they are the comparable.

I did put it on last night and the engine sure cranked a whole lot better. I didn't start it because there was a little smoke coming out from under the dash....which I had seen before when I first got it. It was brief. I am assuming it is from the 14 days of rain we have had but still got a small warning flag.
 
Getting points, condenser, new dist cap (chip out of one of the 4 contacts) and copper core plug wires
 
Famous Grouse- you took the drain plug out of the bottom of the carb and then cranked it for 15 sec or so? This is the last fix/change before I get the carb rebuilt.

-I have put in a new fuel line
-I have checked the flow from the tank to the fuel pump
-I have changed the points and gapped them from .022 to .015 (PO said to set them at .015 for the NAPA points
-I have changed the condenser
-I have changed the distributor cap (however the small right side screw will not work in that hole) due to that I will probably use the old cap.
-I have installed copper plug wires

I guess it is time to bite the bullet.
 
Before I send the carb away, I noticed that the choke plate is not level when it is in the no choke position. I would think the plate should be horizontal when no choke is applied.
 
don't know why the picture won't upload...anyway, it is about at a 45 degree angle when the choke is off.
 
Does anyone know if the choke lever should be horizontal when "open"? Mine seemed to be at about a 30 degree angle or partially closed when in the "open" position. The manual for the Zenith shows the choke horizontal and it might be the cause of the rough running engine.
 

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