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JD 3020 diesel wont start- fuel related I think

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Jeran Gardner

06-27-2010 23:27:53




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Quick background- This tractor has been sitting for about 20 years. It was parked due to the bad front end and my grandfather did not want to weld the front spindles again when he had another better tractor that could be used. It was given to my father and we have plans to use it for a few years then do a full restore due to it was my grandfathers first new tractor, purchased in 1965.
What has been done- lifted on to a semi truck, moved 150 miles and lifted off. Cleaned most of 20 years of blow sand off in and from inside the control panel so all the leavers and shifters move freely. Flushed the fuel tank and replaced two rotted fuel lines. Replaced lower coolant hose that had been removed a few months ago and was told there was still green antifreeze in it when the hose was removed. It has not been in anywhere near freezing temps since. There was water in the oil bath air filter, no idea how it got there, the dust bowl on the top of the air intake is still fine. To our best knowledge, the exhaust has been covered to keep the rain out for the last 20 years (yeah right). It took some work and we had to undo the main hydraulic pump and put a breaker bar on the engine to get it to turn, but it came right loose and the starter spins in as fast as my dad remembers it to spin. We are getting fuel to the injection pump, but not out to the lines that go to the injectors. We have not given it any either because there does not seem to be a point when there is no fuel there to keep it going. The JD online parts catalog shows two injector systems, this one has the injectors that have the small rubber return lines from each injector, i hope you experts know what setup that is. My other concern is that there does not seem to be any pressure building up at the end of the exhaust pipe when it is turning over, not even sure if this is a problem. Any ideas? The serial number of the tractor is 0693**, I am not sure where to find the serial number of the engine and keep forgetting to look for it. Any Ideas, Things to check, and how to bleed the injectors will be greatly appreciated. I am "chief wrench turner" on this project and live 60 miles from it so I can't just go look and check it every day. Please ask any questions I did not cover and thank you all in advance.
Jeran

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Jeran

08-12-2010 16:58:56




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 Re: JD 3020 diesel wont start- fuel related I think in reply to Jeran Gardner, 06-27-2010 23:27:53  
well, finally decided to send the injection pump into the shop and let them look at it. Along with everything else, the head and rotor are shot. So it looks like I am going to end up with a practically new unit. At least now I know there wont be any problems with the injection pump for a very long time and I get to keep the original with the tractor...ohh and spend about $1000!!!!



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Tim S

08-12-2010 17:35:22




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 Re: JD 3020 diesel wont start- fuel related I think in reply to Jeran, 08-12-2010 16:58:56  
That's a lot,,but I spent $815 on a 1530 (3 cyl) pump last month and the head and rotor were okay..



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jdemaris

06-28-2010 05:25:17




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 Re: JD 3020 diesel wont start- fuel related I think in reply to Jeran Gardner, 06-27-2010 23:27:53  
The 3020s used three different injection sysems - as far as the injection pumps go. Early had DB pumps with no timing advance, then the little C pumps, then DB or JDB again with timing advance.
Many later 3020s had converstion kits installed to get rid of the C pump and put on a DB style instead. That because parts were discontinued for the C pumps back late 1970s.

I assume you've got the early DB pump. You HAVE to get it to pump fuel, regarsless of what else is going on. If you have fuel going in, but no fuel coming out to the injectors, you've probably got one of three possible problems.

#1- the metering valve is stuck in "off" position after years of sitting. Very easy fix. Just pop the three-bolt cover off and make it move with a pair of needle-nose pliers. When all is right, that valve gets pulled into "run" mode via a spring. Thus, it can get stuck in "off" pretty easy.

#2 - the plastic governor ring fall apart years ago and rendered the pump useless. If so, and nothing esle is wrong, needs around $30 in parts to fix. Very common problem.

#3 - the pump isn't even turing inside. The DB pump is equipped with a "shear" type driveshaft. It is designed to snap in half if the injection pump turns too hard. Basically, it is a sort of metal "fuse." Take the little rectangular timing window off via the two little screws. Then crank the engine over and observe. Half of what you see in there MUST be rotating whenever the engine is cranking over. If not, the drive-shaft is broken.

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Jeran Gardner

07-03-2010 22:16:30




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 Re: JD 3020 diesel wont start- fuel related I think in reply to jdemaris, 06-28-2010 05:25:17  
third party image

third party image

Update- still not pumping fuel to the injectors, but I am now getting fuel coming out the return line from the injectors. The only thing I can think is that the fuel is coming from the line that goes off the front of the fuel rail and goes forward to the tank I am guessing but can't trace it all the way until I take the hood off.The data plate shows that the pump is a Model NO. DBGVC431---3AJ MFG NO. AR32561. Here is what I found:
Your #1, I removed the cover, it was very dirty inside. There was about half inch of crap on the bottom and everything was covered with the same crap. I cleaned it all out with starting fluid. The valve was stuck and nothing inside moved. I work and moved everything until the spring would pull things back to place. I have a concern with the arm on the main throttle shaft that is shaped like a hook on one side and a fork on the other. It appears that the fork side should push down on the bigger spring in the center, but it does not. Does the spring move when it is under fuel pressure? Or do I still have a problem in there? The photo is of the arm in question. The small "J" shaped lever does move the assembly on the left side under the cover.
Your #2, Where is the governor? I honestly don't know much about diesel systems, if this was a '65 chevy I would feel right at home working on it.
Your #3, I removed the plate just above the data plate. The top half has a mark in the center of it, I am guessing a timing mark, and it does not turn. the bottom half does turn. It also seems quite dirty, I would clean a spot and tap the starter over and could see that it was dirty again so I know it was turning. I was alone so I did not watch it turn with my eyes.
Thanks again for you help with this.
Jeran

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Tim S

06-28-2010 04:32:51




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 Re: JD 3020 diesel wont start- fuel related I think in reply to Jeran Gardner, 06-27-2010 23:27:53  
It sounds like some of the engine valves are sticking. for a start remove the intake manifold(it should come off easey) and watch to see if the valves are moveing when the engine rotates, if not spray a bit of PB Blaster on the stems, now pull the valve cover and see what you have or have not moveing up there, spray some more Blaster into the springs and tap them gently with a small hammer, if they aren't stuck to bad this will loosen them, if it don't let it soak a day or so spraying more blaster on now and then. I'm almost sure that you will have trouble getting the exhaust manifold of to spray on the under side of those valves, the bolts will be tight and rusty, but if you do try to remove it smack each manifold bolt "strongly" dead on the end, and of course more blaster, this will jar them loose with a little luck,,and "Luck" will be an important ingredant here....

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Tx Jim

06-28-2010 04:20:20




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 Re: JD 3020 diesel wont start- fuel related I think in reply to PBrowning, 06-27-2010 23:27:53  

Jeran Gardner said: (quoted from post at 03:10:03 06/28/10) Ohh, the engine oil does not appear to have any water in it after turning it over for about 7 minutes (not continuously of course).


Quick check for coolant in crankcase is after engine has set to loosen pan drain plug and look for water droplets emerging around the threads of the plug.

Small rubber hoses on return line indicates what's referred to as pencil injectors. Inj pump contains a small fuel pump that may be malfunctioning or the fuel delivery valve. I personally only use ether as a "last resort".

If it's a syncro-range trans and not a powershift one could try towing it to get it started.

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Jeran Gardner

06-28-2010 00:10:03




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 Re: JD 3020 diesel wont start- fuel related I think in reply to Jeran Gardner, 06-27-2010 23:27:53  
Ohh, the engine oil does not appear to have any water in it after turning it over for about 7 minutes (not continuously of course).



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