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5525 hydraulic oil foaming in site glass

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Shamrock

12-02-2009 12:43:58




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own a 5525 12/12 PoweReverser tranny with Electronic Hitch with approx. 155 hours on it. Several months ago I greasing my disk mower when I noticed in my hydraulic level sight glasses that my hydraulic oil was white/cloudy. I let the tractor set and the hydrualic came back to its normal amber color. I began to try a few things to see when the hydraulic would foam. At higher RPM if the hydraulics were feathered, foaming would occur in the site glasses. This also occurs if hold your hydraulics once a cylinder finishes it stroke. Also, after the hydraulic fluid gets hot the hydraulic lines begin to buzz/vibrate. After several months of going around with JD and the dealer they are saying this normal for my model. They also state I should run my implements wide open and not feather them. How often do we run a loader wide open when using it?
I have a big concern that air entrainment is occuring and the design of the return oil from the unloading valve is above the sump level causing the oil that is being bi-passed to fall into the sump causing aeration.

Any thought or recommendation is very much appreiciated.

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JDGnut

12-12-2009 14:22:02




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 Re: 5525 hydraulic oil foaming in site glass in reply to Shamrock, 12-02-2009 12:43:58  
Well.. they did learn and rounted the oil back to the filter housing.. the problem on the 20's was that all the oil dumped back above the fuild level... they just didn't return the rockshaft or the relief...
Send me an email, I'd like to know where you're located.. I'd be interested to see what the JD person has to say.. (I'm guessing its a TCSM.)
JDGnut



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Shamrock

12-18-2009 06:39:04




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 Re: 5525 hydraulic oil foaming in site glass in reply to JDGnut, 12-12-2009 14:22:02  
Was at dealer for two hours. They are saying it is typical for the 5025 series to to see some foaming. My opinion I could live with some surface foam, but when the oil is saturated with air (looks like air entrainment) I have an issue with.

Also asked why my disk mower will completely leak off overnight if I leave it in the upright position and when running it I have have to hit my remote several times to keep if from falling back when I pick it making a turn or raising it to go over a rock. Their answer was they went to to cheaper spool valves instead of using poppet style spool valves.

So right now they are going to pull an oil sample and check the hydraulic fluid to see if anything looks off spec and look into the triple SCV to see if it has a check valve to eliminate rear implements leaking off so fast.

Just frustrated when you buy a "Premium" line tractor and they flat out tell you they went to cheaper spool valves and I am going to have to live with it.

Keep you posted on what they find out.

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Tim S

12-18-2009 11:14:12




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 Re: 5525 hydraulic oil foaming in site glass in reply to Shamrock, 12-18-2009 06:39:04  
I'm not takeing up for your dealer, but I wonder if the disc mower cylinder is failing, piston o-ring could be leaking causeing it to leak off over night,,just a thought...



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JDGnut

12-11-2009 08:10:27




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 Re: 5525 hydraulic oil foaming in site glass in reply to Shamrock, 12-02-2009 12:43:58  
I need to correct a comment I made above.. I forgot that the oil was routed different on the 25's...
The return oil from the SCV's is routed back to the filter housing.. But the relief oil and the return oil from the Rockshaft dumps back into the the top of the diff housing. You could actually cycle the hitch up and down many times quickly and see the same result.
On the 20's there was a kit to route this oil back to below the fluid level, part of the issue was that all of the oil is returned back to sump.. Currently there is nothing out there for the 25's, because there are oil two times when oil is normally dumped back to sump... (there are some non normal applications.) rockshaft lowering, and when pressure goes over on relief.
JDGnut

Send me an email...

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Shamrock

12-12-2009 05:35:13




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 Re: 5525 hydraulic oil foaming in site glass in reply to JDGnut, 12-11-2009 08:10:27  
Thanks for the reply and info. The dealership mentioned that they had made modifications to the 5020"s series to correct this problem, by bring the oil back below the oil level in the sump.

I would think that JD would have learned from this when designing the 5025 series.

I am meeting with a JD rep Thursday, Dec. 17th to discuss the issue.

Thanks



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JDGnut

12-03-2009 19:04:45




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 Re: 5525 hydraulic oil foaming in site glass in reply to Shamrock, 12-02-2009 12:43:58  
I'll do some looking in the next few days.. I know this was an issue with some of the larger 5000's.. (Just can't remember which models.) i was thinking it was the 5603.. but its about like a 5020 system.. I think there was improvement that could be done to help the issue.. but high flow in to the diff housing is the issue.. and since its an open center system with constant flow its hard to over come the problem.. increase rpm will just increase the flow...
If I don't post something back.. send me an email.

JDGnut

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gun guru

12-03-2009 16:56:14




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 Re: 5525 hydraulic oil foaming in site glass in reply to Shamrock, 12-02-2009 12:43:58  
Only 155 hours is low for hydraulic oil. It may be that as the oil is being circulated it foams up as it is agitating in the sump. (Im guessing)

When hydraulic valves, (my experience is in machinery not tractors) as a metering edge is opened slightly with high flow passing through the metering edge the fluid is spraying as it comes out of the valve(s). This could be what is causing the foaming. Think about how a garden hose is put into a bucket and you put your thumb over the hose outlet and let it agitate the water in a bucket. If the tractor is that new and the oil is not milky due to water then it should be fine, just bubbles in the oil.

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gun guru

12-03-2009 10:03:24




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 Re: 5525 hydraulic oil foaming in site glass in reply to Shamrock, 12-02-2009 12:43:58  
When was the last time the oil was changed?

If I was you I would make sure the oil level is right, then let the tractor warm up for a long time and see if the foaming occurs when the tractor is idleing. Also tighten up all hydraulic lines.

Then maybe find another JD dealer that gives a rip about you.



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Shamrock

12-03-2009 12:52:05




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 Re: 5525 hydraulic oil foaming in site glass in reply to gun guru, 12-03-2009 10:03:24  
I have never changed the oil. I bought the tractor new and I have only 155 hours on it. Level is right where is is suppose to be.

Also, the dealership went and got another tractor same model and it was doing the same thing.



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Tx Jim

12-03-2009 04:13:47




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 Re: 5525 hydraulic oil foaming in site glass in reply to jdemaris, 12-02-2009 12:43:58  
Shamrock

Have you added any type oil other than JD Hy-gard? If not sounds as if air is sucked in somewhere.



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5625

12-02-2009 19:43:07




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 Re: 5525 hydraulic oil foaming in site glass in reply to Shamrock, 12-02-2009 12:43:58  
I have a 5625 which although I have never noticed foaming in the hyd oil I have noticed that the hydraulic lines chatter when the machine is worked. So much so that I often put the remotes in the float position when I can to stop the vibration. Leaving them in float does not seem to be a problem if the remotes are not in use or if the implement is in the down position. My 2 cents, the hydraulic system on these tractors is essentially the same as they have been using since 93' when the 5000 came out so it is probably not a design problem but a valve or pressure issue. With only 155 hours just make sure john deere documents your concerns so you can come back to them later, then just run the machine, if something is wrong it will break sooner or later. good luck

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Shamrock

12-03-2009 05:21:14




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 Re: 5525 hydraulic oil foaming in site glass in reply to 5625, 12-02-2009 19:43:07  
Thanks for the replay. I also will put my mine in the float position when able to. I just find it odd that talking through my dealership that there has been foaming issues on other tractors where the same thing was happpening ( oil falling into the sump and causing foaming) and JD re-routed the lines because it was an issue. But on mine they are saying this is normal operations. It just bugs me to buy a "premium" line tractor and have to put my remotes in the float position and have hydrualic oil foaming. Plus I have had several other issues with the tractor. If it sits more than seven days it would loose the prime onthe fuel system. Hopefully they resolved this with the electronic fuel pump they installed.

Very frustrated with JD. Rep was suppose to be in in August, never showed up. They then said September, never showed up. Now they are saying within a week (from Monday Nov. 30th)a rep it suppose to be in have not heard anything yet.

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