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Circulating tank heater on 4020 and ether

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Nylon

11-09-2005 19:11:41




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I plugged in the circulating heater on my 4020. I didn't think it would work since the cord is in such tough shape. I couldn't hear any motor run but the element got plenty hot. I let it go for a while (10 Min )and it got way too hot to touch. The line leading to the head and to the cab were too hot to touch but none of the return lines got remotely warm in that 10 min. I know it wasnt long but the other side was so hot I didn't want to melt anything. Should I be able to hear that motor run or do you guys think it was working. I was planning on putting on a new 1500 watt since 2000 may be a little much for 15 amp on extension cord. I was worried that this was only like 500 watts but I wouldn't be suprised if it was 2000. Also can I pull the bottom bolts off and put a new cord on it?

The ether problem....I cant get my screw cap in the cab to open I have wrenched it pretty hard with double wrenches to keep from bending the dash and so far it wont budge. I was thinking bout taking a propane torch to it and a pipe wrench. Is there an o ring in that thing and why would it be so frozen down? Do I have to have a special JD can to use ether? Also I want to trace the line to see where it goes or if there is a line on it. Where should the line from the cab lead to? I have heard everything on ether from use it to don't use it. I figure if they put a system on it at JD it should be useable. I know that you want to give a short burst after it begins to turn over. I started it @ 30 degrees the other nite with no heat or anything and it fumbled a tiny bit but then kicked over and smoothed out nice. Any other cold weather start info / tips appreciated.

I had a set of chains made for it and I got the 7 foot international blower all set up and ready to go.

John

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Lyle (Sask)

11-17-2005 08:01:51




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 Re: Circulating tank heater on 4020 and ether in reply to Nylon, 11-09-2005 19:11:41  
We ran a 4020 for about 20 years when I grew up on the farm.

The 4020 was a fabulous winter starter, even with temps down to -35 to -40 F.

1. It had to have the block heater plugged in.
2. Only when it was getting up in years did we have to revert to a snort of ether to get it to wake up.

I remember one time that a kid got stuck one nite when it was -30 F and I went and fired up the 4020 to pull him out. I noticed that it was rattling more than normal till it warmed up, but only the next day did I realize that the breaker was tripped out at the pole, and that poor old girl handn't been plugged in to heat up.

The old man wasn't too impressed with the repair bill for the push rods I'd pretzeled as a result of firing it up so cold without the block heater working.

So as others have said, Ether is best used very sparingly and only if the motor is getting a bit tired, otherwise a plugged in 4020 with the regular block heater should fire up under any sane temp you want to work her in.

Good luck.

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Dale in IN

11-11-2005 06:25:45




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 Re: Circulating tank heater on 4020 and ether in reply to Nylon, 11-09-2005 19:11:41  
Nylon:
Forget the either. You could possibly lock the engine and you will not get to turn over for hours. That is what happened when I used to shot mine with it. Yor block heater is best and it sounds like yours is working. There is no motor in those heaters. What you hear that sounds like a motor is the water coming to a boil and then moving up and out to the block. I Think there is a thermostat in those heaters and it has to be so hot before it opens and lets the water move out. Generaly you can hear the water start to boil and then you can feel it moving through the outlet hose.

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msb

11-10-2005 22:40:04




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 Re: Circulating tank heater on 4020 and ether in reply to Nylon, 11-09-2005 19:11:41  
If it were me, I would forget using either since you have a coolant heater.Either really rattles the sleeves around.Some people hook their heaters up to time clock and have then come on 15 minutes before they feed every morning.The clocks have a manual override for use when it doesn't fit the feed schedule.No need to heat the coolant for very long.Certainly not over night.Clock timers will pay for themselves in a very short while.

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R. John Johnson

11-10-2005 06:09:45




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 Re: Circulating tank heater on 4020 and ether in reply to Nylon, 11-09-2005 19:11:41  
Nylon

Don't give up on that circulating heater. They work great in our cold climates. There is no motor in them. The noises you hear come from the heating of the engine coolant. The coolant flow is achieved by convection. The warmed coolant rises and cooler coolant sinks to replace it. A high temp in the output line and a cold temp in the return is to be expected. As other posters stated the hot water must go to the head and the supply come from the block. The heater itself should not be at the level of the head and the hose going to the head must not loop up and over the head. This will cause enough restriction to stop the convection flow. Also there should be a thermostat in the heater. If the coolant gets too hot it will shut off.

I'm short on time right now, but I'll check in tonight ands see how you made out.

John

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Jason Z in MO

11-10-2005 04:55:26




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 Re: Circulating tank heater on 4020 and ether in reply to Nylon, 11-09-2005 19:11:41  
Not sure what circulating motor you are referring too. If you have the JD coolant heater it"s a little can that bolts to a bracket to the side of the engine. JD is cast into the little can or tank. If I remember correctly, cold water enters the bottom of the can which has a little check valve built into it. This should only be mounted in an upright position. As the water heats it naturally flows up and out the tube on the top. (Thermo-siphon from the early two cylinders.) That is the circulation method I"m aware of.

The cord for the heating element enters the top. Not sure but I think the top is held on with a Phillips screw. If I am right then you should be able to replace the cord.

The ether injector cap should only be finger tight. There is an o-ring to prevent it from sucking air. Yours must be rusted. Try some penetrating oil and a little heat.

From the injector there is an 1/8" steel line (guessing on the dimension but its small) that runs to the intake manifold. It"s on the left side of the tractor so it should be easy to find, not much on that side unless you have A/C in your cab.

I hope that helps. Did you get your load control shaft seals replaced?

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Nylon

11-10-2005 11:50:16




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 Re: Circulating tank heater on 4020 and ether in reply to Jason Z in MO, 11-10-2005 04:55:26  
Thanks for the info guys. I want to say that this is a Katz tank heater. For some reason I thought that they had an impeller in them. If they are convection then this must be the 2000 watt rig. My cord sleeve is shredded but the individual wires are well coated. This type of heater has a tube entering the side and goes out a tube on top. The cord enters at the bottom snd there are three bolts that attach it to the upper cylinder. I was wondering if these 3 bolts were removed if I could get at the wire terminals and put in a new cord? This must not be fluid filled and I thought maybe this is where the impeller was driven. This tractor has no shed this year so it is outside.

I have almost got my joystick plumbed. I have a line that Tees off the rockshaft supply..I teed off from the rear fitting at the rockshaft rather than by the brakes...cleaner line to the valve. I ran lines to the loader out the front and down past the pto lever and out through the cab floor just forward and left of the brakes. I put quick couplers here. I have yet to make lines from the loader to those quick couplers. Need 4 about 4 feet long. I have a quick coupler at the valve for the supply but not coupled yet but ready to go (1/2 inch). I also have a 3/4 inch quick coupler at the valve on the return side. I had to mount the valve to know how long all the hoses would be with fittings in place. I am heading into town today to pick up the 3/4 inch return line...5 feet. I need to cut a bit of cab molding to route it. I have the T to return to the area behind the filter cap. Once I get the last parts set up and ready to place I will drop the fluid and do the load shaft and the T for the return line. That is when I will find out about the brakes. I need to get some shim washers on hand yet for the load shaft. So I am getting closer to finishing valve, load shaft and finding out what brake situation is. The valve was $200 but the fittings and hoses and couplers are adding up to about $250 - $225.

The brakes creak and groan but they lock up the wheels no problem if you want them to so I am hoping that the creaking is normal. Not likely though :] I also had been striping and painting the areas behind where valves and hoses were going to go so that I wouldn't have to take them off again as I paint the tractor. So I have various sides and parts stripped primed and painted. Looks a little goofy but jewel in the rough I say :]

Thanks again for the help

John

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barnrat

11-10-2005 04:48:31




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 Re: Circulating tank heater on 4020 and ether in reply to Nylon, 11-09-2005 19:11:41  
Sorry I ment I have a 2000 watt tank heater.



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barnrat

11-10-2005 04:42:30




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 Re: Circulating tank heater on 4020 and ether in reply to Nylon, 11-09-2005 19:11:41  
I run a 4000watt tank heater that gets hot to touch in about 2 min I run it for at least half an hour before I start my 4020 then return line just starts to warm. I plug my tractor in at about 50 degrees or below. I usually never have to use either if I plug it in. When it's below zero F I have to use some either, but I just spray a snort in the precleaner. The either injection system was plugged off before I even got the tractor. If you suspect your tank heater is failing in any way replace it(cheap insurance). Also check to see if It's plumbed correctly with output plumbed into the head and return coming from block. There is no motor in tank heaters(that I know of) They work on the thermo syphon principal so tank return lin must be below tank output line.

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nw_bearcat

11-10-2005 06:18:38




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 Re: Circulating tank heater on 4020 and ether in reply to barnrat, 11-10-2005 04:42:30  
We fed for years with a 4020D, it had one of the heaters that looks like a spray paint can with a hose coming in the side, and one going out of the top, I think it was a 1500W heater. In all that time, we never used ether, and even ended up starting it a few times w/o the heater when it was around 40. For the most part, it was plugged in when the temps hit 40 or so.

If you question the quality of the cords you are using at all, replace them. 3 winters ago, my Father in Law burnt down his shed where he stores his baler, 4040, all of his cattle working equipment, feed, and general farm supplies. He came home from work to see some smoke coming out of the barn...he had plugged in the 4040 at noon when he was home for lunch, and by 5 when he returned, the cords and plug on the engine heater had shorted out, and the cab of the 4040 was engulfed in flame, all he could do was stand and watch, once the fire started. The local F.D. showed up, but an old barn w/ a hay loft burns hot and quick. A total loss.

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