New Idea 30a sickle bar mower QUESTIONS!

IHFLWI

New User
Hello there, this is my first time posting and my husband and I have a few questions about a recent purchase we made of a new idea 30 a sickle bar mower.
1. Everything works as it is supposed to on the machine, however when using it to cut high grass/light brush it basically is just pushing the grass/light brush over. I m assuming this is because the blades need to be replaced? What is the recommended brand and best blades to replace on this machine?

2. It has the original new idea guards on the bar. I m assuming it would be a good idea to replace these also to get the best cut? What would any of you recommend as far is brand or type that I replace them with?

3. We are currently pulling it behind a 1941 Farmall M tractor and wanting to cut a long a creek side. The grass is almost waist high but on flat surface, but on a flat surface leading up to the creek. I was quite disappointed when using it for the first time that it did not cut but a few blades and the rest it just pushed over and dragged right. Is there anything else any of you would recommend we also replace?

4. We are in southern Wisconsin and have access to a fleet farm, farm and fleet, and also a tractor supply. We are not opposed to ordering the parts online but we were hoping to buy them local if possible. Yeah any recommendation.

I will attach a few pictures. Any advice or recommendations on what you think we should do or needs to be done to this would be greatly appreciated. I did purchase an operator in parts manual so I do have that and my husband did the adjustments necessary that we could find in the book.
 
Fleet should still have knife sections & guards to fit your mower. Take a section & guard along with you when you go to match them up. Good
possibility that there's a book sitting on the shelf by the sections that will tell you what's compatible with your mower if you can't get
one of the sections off the bar or don't have a spare floating around.

I have a box of original New Idea sections floating around here someplace. They should fit the 30. Are you close to West Bend by chance?

Mike
 

Not always, but in many cases new users have to have 5 or more posts on record before the site lets them post pictures (or links), due to site spam filters. Another option is to go down to the Site Comments Forum and ask YT Support for permission to post prior to that. You can try going down to the Test Forum and making several posts there to get your post count up, trying to attach your pictures to each post. That may work after you make several posts. Then make your post here again. It may not work immediately after you get past the 5 posts, if not, you might try logging out and back in at that point. There is a size limit as well, I think it is a total of 7mb per post (be it one picture or the total of several). Some pictures (often taken with phones), are too large and have to be reduced before they will post.
 
I have had the experience of cutting many acres with a horse drawn mower, long time ago

We converted it to a tractor pull. As I recall, if the knife sections were a bit loose from the ledger plates

it did not cut so well, and would drag. The knife section rides on the ledger plates and if they are loose

the little clamps(plates) holding them in place could and should be adjusted. Sometimes just a little persuasion with a

hammer made them work like new. Those little clamps are replaceable. Check it out. In most cases they are

the parts that need to be changed- not the guards or knife sections. Good luck with your project
 
I can help you ,I rebuilt this one maybe 6 years ago . It was a long process cause ours was really worn out.

I would get a new section 6 or Seven foot from Webb . I think they were about a 140 a few years ago . I put in new rock guard sections in old

Rock guards by drilling them out and rivet them

I thin k in your situation what your saying the cutter bar hold down are really worn and the cutter bar is lifted.

Also the cutter section may be off center ,the cutter bar needs center . You will see the description in your manual .



Might try adjusting the cutter bar lever down so rocks guard are pointing down ,it may help .



The short of it is that you will be doing a lot to it to get it to cut heavy area if the cutters section are not maintained. No getting around it .
Been there







cvphoto137023.jpg

Read your manual ,read again and start with the easy things your comfortable with , then if if feel you dont understand or dont know how to do it post page and section of manual with the question .
 
It better be pretty small brush to cut with a hay mower. Bigger than about a 3/4 inch will be a challenge without breaking sections. As for the grass the sections need to be sharp. The guards if rounded at the ledger, or not a good square edge. Then the knife not setting nicely down on the guards and hold downs not tight to the knife tight meaning such you can slide the knife through the guards by hand without the sections lifting off the ledgers in the guards. This mower may not have ledger plates in the guards. If it does you may be able to replace them separate from the guards. Then you will want to probably mow in about first or second to start till you see how it works and get the hang of it. If the brush is very big then you need to find a rotary cutter for that. (bushog)
 
Good points about the brush , tear up sections and damage worm gear drive . I ve repaired the gear box and its big time wasted over months
 
Keep it out of any brush, not made to cut any brush, only grass. And New Idea has not been made for at least 20 years so no new parts being made for it. Cutter bar parts are generac so aftermarket is what you can get. You break something in the drive your mower is going to the scrap pile. So keep it away from any brush. I was to the 100 year celebration at factory 6 months after the factory was closed with prommisses at celebration that it was going to reopen in a couple of months. Instead factory was sold.
 
Thanks for your response. Actually I shouldve explained better thats its basically really high grass and weeds. Ive been keeping my eyes out on many different outlets for replacement parts from old machines.
 
Thank you so much your comments and suggestions are very helpful. Do you know anywhere that I can buy a cutter bar? I havent done the research yet but Im getting ready to and would appreciate your input
 
I may be interested in the teeth that you have for sale how much would you want for them we are in Clinton Wisconsin, And also what number are they? Ours currently has B minus on them.
 
These are the pictures of the mower that I have. I know that
the teeth need replaced, And the owner prior to May replace
some of the cards but they seem all to be different. So Im
assuming for best performance I will need to replace all of the
teeth but do the guards neighbor replaced also from what you
can see in the photos?
 
(quoted from post at 09:18:52 10/04/22) These are the pictures of the mower that I have. I know that
the teeth need replaced, And the owner prior to May replace
some of the cards but they seem all to be different. So Im
assuming for best performance I will need to replace all of the
teeth but do the guards neighbor replaced also from what you
can see in the photos?

[img:9108ec81bb][/img:9108ec81bb]
 
This is very long...I ran out of typing ability since I do this with two fingers. There will inevitably be mistakes in spelling, missed words, and poor sentence structure. There's also the likelihood I put some steps out of order or missed entirely.

Lets speak generically. There's a lot of adjustment that need to be pretty close to right for a sickle to work to work good. The first thing to do is buy the owners manual someplace, it will have almost everything you'll need in it to make all the required adjustments. But until you get one there's some common sense things you can do. Since the mower is new to you remove the knife bar and make certain it's absolutely straight. That shouldn't be too hard.

The sections are likely riveted on, if they are in excellent shape just leave them but if they are dull, chipped or broken then replace them and use bolts (some call them screws) and nuts designed for the type of section you are using. My limited experience with various machines all used the generic bolts. If you have long workbench it makes it much easier, I use my hay rack deck and some cut 2x4's to hold the bar up to drive the rivets out after grinding the heads off. They make tools for removing and re-riveting riveted sections and they make a tool for installing bolts too. I modified my rivet tool to work with bolts. Don't try to pull a bolt in with the nut... it might lead to disappointment.

Now, before the knife goes back in inspect the wear plates (if it uses them), they should be under a few of the guards but not all of them. If it has them they are likely worn down. Those are inexpensive so set them in where they came out use good judgement, they can be put under every guard but that just adds friction and heat, too few and the knife flexes too much. My personal choice is every third guard across the center and one on each end regardless of where the nearest one is. Just inspect them at this point, don't remove them.

Put the knife back in the bar and working off the wobble box. Now you need to check register. That is when the individual section tips are centered perfectly in the guard at both ends of it's travel. That's a function of moving the drive box (wobble box) one way or the other, be prepared...the bolts and/or nuts to hold this are very tight! That box is under a lot of stress. Look for at least four and more likely six or more bolts holding the box in place. It should be able to move sideways to center the sections at full throw on both ends of the travel. If they are fine leave that alone. Close works but they have to be close.

Next up... multiple items. The guards, wear plates (mentioned above if any are used) and hold downs are likely attached with the guard bolts. Replace the wear items at this time. Replace them all at once to save labor later. Mount them loosely in this order... wear plate on the bar (it needs to be clean and free of rust), guard, hold down on top. But this depends on the type of guards used one piece or two piece. I won't go into the two piece guards because I've never seen them.

OK, now the knife is a razor blade so keep close watch on all your fingers. It should move freely in the guards at this point. The sections should be centered in a guard. The wear plates should be installed (as well as new guards if the ledger is rounded bad) and good hold downs too (BTW, bolts holding the sections on might require high guards, rivets won't) so now the knife can be set snug with the wear plates (or whatever the 30A uses for to do that). This is done by pushing the knife forward into the guards until the underside of the spine of the knife is snug to the inside wear area of the guard. On all the sickles I've owned the wear plates do this. It's frustrating getting them all the same. Just don't get them too tight. The knife always has to move freely or with just the slightest amount of resistance. At this point it might be a good idea to remove the knife from the wobble box again.

Nobody said these old sickles didn't require a considerable amount of time getting correct. But once they are correct keeping them that way is easier. And a correctly working sickle will cut beautifully, quietly, and leave a lawn smooth stubble.

Back to adjusting... now the knife is snug (not tight) to the front of the guards knife spine recess, all the fore and aft adjusting is done as equally as possible between all the parts, tighten all the guards down. Check and make the adjustment parts haven't moved. If all is good on to the next adjustment.

Grab some strong string or use your eyes (eyes can play tricks, string won't). Stretch the string between the farthest guard teeth on each end and as far towards the point as you can get it. Construction (braided) line works best because it can be piano wire tight. The objective is to line up the tips of the guards all across the bar in a perfectly straight line. This will put all the ledgers at the correct height relative one another. It's another frustrating part. There's some nuances here. Getting the tips lined up relative to the bottom of the bar will will reduce the draft on the bar as it's cutting. More on that later.

I put a straight edge under the bar facing forward and set the first guard the string is attached to at the middle of the thickness of the bar. I found that's a good compromise because I could never find an official measurement for that, Just using your eyes for that works too. Just don'tpoint the the tips of the too much up or down in relation to the bottom of the bar flat. Now set all the tips of each guard as close to the string as is humanly possible. A good heavy piece of pipe slipped over the tip to use as leverage to bend the tips or down works good (disclaimer- all the guards I have used are malleable iron, check yours first before trying to bend them) Some older guards I understand where made of cat iron, try and bend those and you'll be buying a new guard.

OK, now all the tips are in line. Now on to the hold down adjustment (for me this is day two). There's a LOT of tightening, loosening, tightening, readjusting, etc.in all those previous steps.

The hold downs I'm familiar with can't be adjusted readily while they are on the machine. Everyone (and my owners manual) says they can be....I've never had such good luck. YMMV. The hold downs I use are the generic John Deere type. I'm not familiar with any other kind. The principles are the same however. The knife sections need to be within a couple of thousandth's of the ledgers. Tight on the ledgers is not good, too much friction. But the section will move away from the ledger a very small amount so keep them as tight as possible without rubbing. Some wisdom says that hitting the top of the hold down sharply with a mallet will move the guard away from the section, and hitting the front edge will move it closer. There's only two problems I've found with that; the sections are in the way in both directions. The guard has now room to move past it's memory position from the top and the sections are in the way from the front so the risk of damaging them is significant. It's better to get them pretty tight by removing them one by one and bending them in a vise by clamping onto the mounting hole side. Then use a flat ended punch from below to move it up so it just keeps the section snug on the ledger.

Now oil everything on the bar, make sure the sickle moves still moves freely, attach it firmly and correctly to the wobble box, hook it the PTO shaft to the tractor and start it up and run it slow, listen. If everything was done correctly it should has a whisper quiet sound coming from the cutters. A swish, swish swish sound. It should shave one inch of grass off a lawn with ease.

However, all that hard work and frustration won't last long in a field of tall grass with woody weeds. Woody weeds are timber weeds (otherwise known as giant ragweed) thistle, burdock, and a plethora of other woody weeds. But with everything near to perfect now it will take much less time to get it back that way at the end or start of the next season.
 
The guards and sickle sections should be available at Fleet Farm. I rebuilt mine using stuff from there.
They even occasionally had generic hardwood pitman arms in stock.
Get yourself a manual, should be able to find a place to buy one online.
 
First off that mower DOES NOT have a wabble box, It has a pitman stick that drives off a small flywheel with an ofset pin to drive the pitman. Then easies way to remove sectionsd is with a sturdy vice mounted sollid. open jaws just enough for section to slie in and hit back of each section with a 2 pund hanner one strike ans section is off. lots of different style sectiond with differend rivit spacing. So have to get what fits perfect to holes in knife back, just a 64 inch off and you cannot get them all on the knife back. The knife back may or may not be a New Idea back so have to fit the holes in section to knife back. Then the one piece wear plate is better because it will be easier to align all plates to knife back and it will not let grass get in between the knife and where plate like the individual plates will do. Then the guards might all be made with different angle to ledger plate of slightly bent' then depending on after market guards they may have a different tilt thanthe wear plate in the inner and outer shoe, The guars hage to have the same tilt as the end shoes, different tilt can bake sections catch ledger plate And both the inner shoe and outter show will have replacements in them. Orignal NI guards will have the replaceable leger plates as well, new guards do not have ledger plates in. Thenthe guards should all be same length, some are different lengths and be in perfect alignmernt. The inner hold down if orignal will be a cast piece that cannot be adjusted for tight fit, others that are pressed steel you can clamp the bolt hole section in that vice and with the same hammer bent them slightly to tighten them to the sections unless they are too wore out for that, likely. Then they need to be replaced. And you want serated knife sectionsm mowers when I was growing up use underserated knife sections while top serated were for like wheat straw but not about all that is out there are the top serated sectiond that are made to not be sharpened while theunderserated are ment to ge sharpened on top side untill all serationd are gone. We mowed hay with our bar mowers for years. I bought my first mower Ac John Deere horse mower in 1959 and used only bar mowers to mow hay and clip wheat stubbles or field weeds untill we bought the first mower-conditioner combination and used it untill the dairy heard left in fall of 1980. I have rebuilt several horse drawn mowers for the Amish since I used them. so I am not entirely sure of all parts still avaible now. Bolts were not avaible at the time for me so was allrivits and I had no problems with them. You want a slight upward tilt to the cutter bar, just a slight tilt not a whole lot. And I am a single finger typest. And now 79 years old. I did have some of those New Idea mowers I parted out but never used them as had other makes that I considered beter even the New Idea was built 40 mile from me. I never did like that rope lift clutch they had that you had to be runningg for ycu to raise cutter bar. And broken knife back and head can be welded and used for years. Just make sure the ball on the knife head is greased, some will have a zerk in there, others you just have to use a squirt oil can and do it a lot ofener than the zerk. At least every half hour of rinning time.
 
Thanks Leroy. I was speaking in generic terms about my experiences with I've owned. The principles are the about the same. Register, straight guard tips as viewed from the side, snug knife inside the guards etc. How it's accomplished is peculiar to the sickle. I feel most folks can get the idea without having to follow explicit directions.

Nevertheless, I do defer to your extensive knowledge because although I don't post here very often I do respect what you know.
 

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