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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

New Holland haybine Issues

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shadfarm

09-11-2020 12:02:59




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Hello everyone!

I am having issues with my new Holland haybine. The haybine gets clogged every 10-20 feet. It started acting up last year, so this spring I installed all new sickle knives. I was thinking that was my issue, but That didnt fix my problem. The knives cut the grass for the first 10-20 feet then the sickle bar stops moving. I shut the pto off and remove the grass that is sitting on top of the sickle knives and continue to cut another 10-20 feet, and the problem starts back over. Any ideas what my problem is? I took some pictures before I cleaned off the sickle knives.

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GordoSD

09-18-2020 17:27:20




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  
Do you have a n air compressor near your shop door? If not get a 60 gal vertical compressor and a 50 foot hose on a hand reel by the door. You need to be able to blow of all that old debris and caked on grease so you can see what you're doing . Knotters and sickle mowers need to be clean. I set the section to guard clearance on my NH haybine with a feeler gauge and bend each one to spec.



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Handsome Devil

09-18-2020 07:17:55




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  
I have spun the reel and moved the sickle bar/pitman arm on my 469 and 489. You have to move reel the right direction. The other direction will not move anything but the reel. It moves hard but it does move and I have a healing broken back. If attached to PTO you have to have that in neutral or the brake on PTO will stop you.

From your description OP I would go back to earlier suggestions and look for a sheared key on the drive or your belt/slip clutch out of adjustment. Going back to the fact that it was cutting and now sounds like the cutting motion is intermittent I would look here. Question can you drop down and watch your pitman arm in motion when running the haybine being stationary like in the shop or driveway. Someone mentioned a sheared key might move some of the machinery running lite {not working} but slip and spin when under pressure or working? IS your bolt through the sickle bushing been visually checked? As in removed and inspected? On mine that was where the stress showed up, the cause was the bearing under the wobble box and eventually the wobble box itself. But the stress effect showed up on the sickle bushing and bolt which often broke on my NH 469 in the end of its useful life. With some objective investigation you should be able to find the glitch in the drive. Start at the PTO and work backwards, I think on a older haybine like the 469 it should show itself fairly easy? Of course this is easy for me to say from my kitchen. My 489 is giving me problems and I have not found it yet either so I do understand missing the obvious on my end.
Regards, John.

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shadfarm

09-17-2020 11:45:43




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  
Before I started mowing I could move my sickle bar by rotating the reel by hand or running the pto. Then I started mowing and it stopped, I tried disengaging and re engaging the pto, and I spun the reel and the sickle wouldnt move. I waited several days then removed the dry grass from the sickle bar, and I was able to get the sickle bar to move by moving the reel and by engaging the pto. I will try your recommendation to test it.

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MJMJ

09-17-2020 07:19:41




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  
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Not sure I understand how you were testing it before? The only way to get the bar to move is to rotate the drive belt connected to the wobble box. Rotating the reel won't move the bar, at least on mine it doesn't.
It should be simple to figure out where the problem is. Hook it up, start mowing, when the bar stops moving get off the tractor and look at the drive belt and see if it's slipping.

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showcrop

09-17-2020 03:47:07




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  
I would put a stick in between a knife section and a guard, and gently bump it with a slight release of the clutch. This can show you where it is slipping.



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J.Wondergem

09-16-2020 19:04:39




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  
If that pulley is keyed an broke, it could catch enough to turn when it's not cutting anything



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shadfarm

09-16-2020 13:26:35




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  
Miangus after trying your recommendation to turn the wobble box pully, and it make the sickle bar move I decided to hook the haybine to my tractor and run it by pto. The sickle bar is now moving. What would of caused it to not work, and now all of a sudden it works?



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miangus

09-21-2020 12:40:30




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-16-2020 13:26:35  
Did you ever get it to mow correctly? I wonder if your belt tightener stuck and let the belt run loose. I don't think there is a overrunning clutch in the knife drive. But the pins can stick in intermittently. I believe if the rolls turn the drive pulley that drives the wobble box belt should turn and if the belt is tight the pulley on the wobble box should turn. NH does use gib keys on the 469 and they can come out. Usually its the opposite you need to get then out but can't.

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shadfarm

09-16-2020 12:16:28




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  
Yes the knife/ sickle bar moves when I turn the wobble box pully



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shadfarm

09-15-2020 14:10:09




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  






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shadfarm

09-15-2020 14:05:01




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  
With the pto running the reel and the rollers spin but the sickle bar is not moving.





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miangus

09-15-2020 19:32:43




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-15-2020 14:05:01  
I wish my memory was better. Is the drive belt for the wobble box actually driving the wobble box? If you turn the pulley by hand on the wobble box does the knife move? There Is a gib key on the pulley that drives the belt for the wobble box pulley I believe. If it fell out or sheared the pulley could just spin on the shaft when loaded.



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J.Wondergem

09-14-2020 18:38:33




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  
For now you could just knock the hold downs, down with a hammer.



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shadfarm

09-14-2020 11:20:00




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  
I will replace the hold downs, and see if that fixes my issue. Thanks everyone for the help



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showcrop

09-14-2020 09:26:29




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  
It appears from two of the pics that your hold-downs are about 3/8 inch above the knives so they are not holding the knife down. If you were to try to cut six sheets of paper at once with a pair of shears that had 1/16 between the blades they would not cut. The paper would twist sideways between the two blades jamming them.



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shadfarm

09-14-2020 08:04:52




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Last night I grabbed the reel of the haybine and began to spin it. I spun it down then I spun it up. The reel and the rollers were the only thing that moved. If I remember correctly, in the spring when I put the new knives on I could move the sickle by spinning the reel. The sickle has some dry grass in between the knives but its not enough grass to cause the sickle to not move. When I changed the knives in the spring they moved from guard to guard. I took some more pictures of the sickle and I will attach them here. I did notice last night that the gear box was wet around it.










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Traditional Farmer

09-12-2020 09:17:11




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  
Like others said if the sickle stops moving you have drive line issues that need to be addressed first off.



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miangus

09-14-2020 19:43:24




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to Traditional Farmer, 09-12-2020 09:17:11  
I am trying to remember exactly how a 469 drives the wobble box, are you sure its not slipping the drive belt. Does the reel stop when it plugs? I had a 489 that acted odd in light hay until I realized that the reel tines did not run close enough to the cutter bar. I don't think that is your issue, but in light hay they almost need to touch. Been awhile since I had my old 469 it was a refugee from the junk yard, it could pound out the knife drive bushing or take out one of those bearings in the wobble box, but if the knife plugged it would slip the belt, you had to jam the rolls to get the slip clutch to slip.

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Handsome Devil

09-12-2020 08:34:07




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  
For starters {very easy no tools needed} check your register to see you cutter or sickle is fully stroking from guard point to guard point and not doing a half stroke or intermittent stroke. The 469 sickle bushing can be a problem as the machine wears out you will go through more of them. At least I did. In my case the wobble box was on its way out. Drive belt and slip clutch as stated can be out of adjustment. On my 489 the belt from transfer case to wobble box shaft was also loose. Start following the chain of events in the motion. Start with the easy to check stuff first. But again if your register or stroke is not correct it will act up. I used my worn out 469 for nearly 30 years and it was worn out when I got it. Good machine but it is an oldie RIP.
My NH 489 haybine had and has a number of problems but was doing the same thing. Put the correct sickle {single tooth cutter section} and new guards. It now cuts like it should. Have a bearing out somewhere so still not using it. But at least it cuts now. Some, but not a lot of videos on Utube of repairs and trouble shooting to give you ideas. Regards, John.

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Fred Werring

09-12-2020 07:55:52




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  
Drive belt, slip clutch, cutter bar bushing?



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showcrop

09-12-2020 06:44:17




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  
None of your pics show how high above the sections the hold-downs are.



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Pig

09-12-2020 05:51:19




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  
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Agreed. There's nothing that immediately jumps out that is wrong here. Sections look very sharp too (you wrote you replaced them, so no issue there).

The sickle doesn't cut anymore because it stops going back and forth, hence the grass buildup.

"The haybine gets clogged every 10-20 feet."

I reckon there is some kind of 'drive' issue going on, nothing to do with the sickle per se.

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MJMJ

09-12-2020 05:40:37




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  
I could sure be wrong, but I dont see anything that should even come close to locking up the bar. To me, it looks more like grass being pulled in on top of the knife section as the bar is slowing down, so more of a result and not the cause if that makes sense. Id check the drive belt and go from there. Not saying your guards and hold downs are perfect, but I dont think thats your issue. Even if it cuts like crap, that bar should still be moving with that minimal amount of grass in it.

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shadfarm

09-12-2020 05:12:19




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  



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shadfarm

09-12-2020 05:11:02




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  










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shadfarm

09-12-2020 05:06:54




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  
hopefully the pictures uploaded
[img:a2d11c6c71]https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/photos/mvphoto61685.jpg>

[/img:a2d11c6c71]



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shadfarm

09-12-2020 05:05:37




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see[img:66a323ddb4]>



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showcrop

09-12-2020 02:51:49




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  
You should be able to post pics now. Post a couple of your guards and someone can tell you how worn they are. The hold downs need regular adjustment as everything wears in order to keep the "shears" effect.



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Northvale PA

09-11-2020 19:32:48




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  
I had a 469. I would pull my knife and sharpen it. Before putting the knife back in, I would scrape out the grass in the grove between the guards and the knife. That gunk creates a gap and causes poor cutting. Yes, new hold down clamps keep the gap small or zero, which is the optimum situation. They are supposed to work like shears.



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shadfarm

09-11-2020 19:16:13




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  

The grass seems to get stuck between the knives and guards, I have to get the cutting bar to move back so I can remove the grass. The grass also tends to lay on top of the knives and I have to remove it.



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shadfarm

09-11-2020 19:11:28




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  
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Model #467 New Holland



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MJMJ

09-11-2020 17:47:25




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  
I think you may need more posts before being able to post pics. When you can, post close pics of what exactly is jamming up the bar before buying parts. Is is getting jammed between the knife and guard? Ive used some really worn guards and never even heard of that causing the bar to stop moving. I tend to agree that it sounds like the belt is slipping. Also, the model number may help.



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shadfarm

09-11-2020 17:07:53




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  
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Thank you I will replace the hold downs, then replace the guards if the hold downs do not do the trick. I tried to post some pictures of the haybine being clogged but I cant figure out how to post pictures from my phone on here



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shadfarm

09-11-2020 16:54:58




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  



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shadfarm

09-11-2020 16:34:57




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  
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The guards maybe shot, how would I know if they are? Im new to working on farm equipment on my own. I worked alongside my grandpa up and until he passed away last year.



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showcrop

09-11-2020 16:28:40




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  
Hold downs are worn. If the hold downs are not holding the knife down on the guards grass gets in between the guards and the knife and will bind it up. I never had them but the adjustable ones look like the way to go.



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4520bw

09-11-2020 15:07:46




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  
Are the guards shot and the hay being pulled into them and not being cut?



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Rogeriniowa

09-11-2020 14:56:45




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  
Tighten drive belt. Guards have to be sharp too, not rounded cutting surface. Holddowns adjusted?



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craigco

09-11-2020 14:47:21




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 Re: New Holland haybine Issues in reply to shadfarm, 09-11-2020 12:02:59  
Tighten the slip clutch.



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