743rd Posting about Twine Box Tension

lastcowboy32 · Aug 24, 2020

OK... maybe not 743... but, it would seem that I've had more mystery issues with twine box tension on our old NH269 than I should.

The symptom is:

The twine comes out of the needle, but is still going through the baler. It usually runs along the bottom of the hay in the chamber.

This CAN be a twine disc/twine holder problem.... and/or a needle placement problem... had this problem last year... checked the discs and the needles.... all good.

Tightened the tension at the twine box? Fixed it.

The manual says that it needs about 10lbs of pull force.

Well, the problem came back this year. I checked the discs and the needle placement again. All good. I replaced the bolt on the twine clamp (it was old and rusty); so that I could tighten and adjust it better... the problem almost went away...

Almost.

What we reasoned out is this, the little clamp plate was twisting. I always hold it square when I adjust the tension, to make sure the tension is even on both sides. BUT... in use, the plate twists, covering one hole almost completely, keeping the twine nice and tight on that side.... but it almost uncovers the other hole... couple that with a little bit of wear at the hole edge... and when this happens, that particular twine has almost no tension on it.

So, took the cordless drill out to the field and drilled a hole in the plate... and installed a cotter pin... loose enough to not affect the clamping pressure, but just there to keep the plate from twisting.

Now? Six wagons loaded without a repeat of that problem. I think we finally got it...

lastcowboy32 · Aug 24, 2020

We did have ONE issue with the fix...

I need to replace the cotter pin and install another one with a little more play to it. The plate needs to ride up a little to allow the splice knot through. This cotter pin is a little too tight for that.

What would be ideal is the world's smallest clevis pin... or a dowel... or something... anything that keeps the plate square, but lets it ride up and down on the spring.

Also... might need to just replace the twine tensioner plate... the wear at the hole edge from 50 years of twine passing through may be the true root cause.

Hayfarmer · Aug 24, 2020

my NH282 has the same type tensioner plate. I sue plastic twine and it is more abrasive I believe. I have found that I get small groves worn in tensioner top and bottom. Also sides of holes twine goes through. Any roughness can cause nick in twine which breaks when full tension is on bale. I made a new tensioner suing the same top plate but new mounting plate that I could put the ceramic guides on instead of metal holes. This style is used on later balers 315 is one.It seems to work good. Hard to tell from picture but spring on top of the tensioner looks pretty compressed

flying belgian · Aug 24, 2020

I'm not out there now to look but I think on my 65 the bottom plate is formed like the top plate to keep it from twisting.

retired farmer · Aug 24, 2020

Drill another hole and put another bolt and spring in there.

JDIH · Aug 25, 2020

(quoted from post at 05:33:15 08/24/20)

The twine comes out of the needle, but is still going through the baler. It usually runs along the bottom of the hay in the chamber.

I cant understand how this is possible. How can the twine come out of the needle, yet stay in the bale chamber? I cant tell from the picture, is there a spring under that nut? If not there should be. Also how can the top plate twist with it being to close to the twine box?

lastcowboy32 · Aug 25, 2020

(quoted from post at 04:12:43 08/25/20)

(quoted from post at 05:33:15 08/24/20)

The twine comes out of the needle, but is still going through the baler. It usually runs along the bottom of the hay in the chamber.

I cant understand how this is possible. How can the twine come out of the needle, yet stay in the bale chamber? I cant tell from the picture, is there a spring under that nut? If not there should be. Also how can the top plate twist with it being to close to the twine box?

Click to expand...

If the twine doesn't get caught by the twine holder discs, it gets dragged back down into the chamber as the needles retract. The next plunger stroke can pinch the twine between a couple of slabs... and... next thing you know... the twine is out of the needles and being dragged through the chamber. Sometimes, when this happens, the twine gets caught with the last knot. As much as I hate this problem.... it IS funny to see a bale kicked into the wagon with twine attached to it.

Happened once a long time ago with my son-in-law running our old baler that baled on the ground. He didn't realize what happened. The twine was caught on a bale, and he strung about 200 feet of it across the field before I stopped him.

Funny and frustrating at the same time.

But anyway... this problem usually is a twine holder problem... as in, the twine isn't held tightly enough.

But, if the tension is too loose coming out of the twine box, or, if the needles aren't in the right position... the twine never gets caught in the twine holder in the first place... and this same symptom results.

So, there are three possible causes of this symptom:
Twine holding discs too loose.
Needles not setting twine in the disc.
Tension from the twine box too loose.

And also combinations thereof...

lastcowboy32 · Aug 25, 2020

As far as, "how can the plate twist" ?

The plate is close to the twine box, but not exactly lined up. There is enough space to twist a little. That little bit of twist is all it takes to essentially let the twine on one side "loose", because the plate only covers a very small portion of the hole that the twine goes through. Combine that with a little bit of wear, where the twine makes a little groove in the side of the hole over time? And a little bit of plate twisting can be the difference between 10lbs of tension and zero tension.

And yes, there is a spring under that nut.

All good questions!

JDIH · Aug 25, 2020

(quoted from post at 06:17:02 08/25/20)

(quoted from post at 04:12:43 08/25/20)

(quoted from post at 05:33:15 08/24/20)

The twine comes out of the needle, but is still going through the baler. It usually runs along the bottom of the hay in the chamber.

I cant understand how this is possible. How can the twine come out of the needle, yet stay in the bale chamber? I cant tell from the picture, is there a spring under that nut? If not there should be. Also how can the top plate twist with it being to close to the twine box?

Click to expand...

If the twine doesn't get caught by the twine holder discs, it gets dragged back down into the chamber as the needles retract. The next plunger stroke can pinch the twine between a couple of slabs... and... next thing you know... the twine is out of the needles and being dragged through the chamber. Sometimes, when this happens, the twine gets caught with the last knot. As much as I hate this problem.... it IS funny to see a bale kicked into the wagon with twine attached to it.

Happened once a long time ago with my son-in-law running our old baler that baled on the ground. He didn't realize what happened. The twine was caught on a bale, and he strung about 200 feet of it across the field before I stopped him.

Funny and frustrating at the same time.

But anyway... this problem usually is a twine holder problem... as in, the twine isn't held tightly enough.

But, if the tension is too loose coming out of the twine box, or, if the needles aren't in the right position... the twine never gets caught in the twine holder in the first place... and this same symptom results.

So, there are three possible causes of this symptom:
Twine holding discs too loose.
Needles not setting twine in the disc.
Tension from the twine box too loose.

And also combinations thereof...

Click to expand...

That makes sense now. I didn't think about the twine coming out during a knotter cycle

tomturkey · Aug 26, 2020

Thanks for the follow up. I also use a NH 269 and while I have never had your problem, the time may be coming. So thanks for the
knowledge you've shared. gobble

Absent Minded Farmer · Aug 26, 2020

I know it may be larger in person, but what twine are you using? Looks like binder twine in the picture.... or spaghetti noodles.

Mike

lastcowboy32 · Aug 26, 2020

(quoted from post at 08:25:32 08/26/20) I know it may be larger in person, but what twine are you using? Looks like binder twine in the picture.... or spaghetti noodles.

Mike

You're right.. it's very thin stuff. Tractor Supply 9000ft poly twine. It's super thin. I'm sure that's part of the problem.

I'm running my wiper arm super tight to the bill hook, because the knots are hard to wipe off, when the twine is so thin. I haven't had a problem with it this year. But I made the adjustment last year, and it's still working.

Also, it's prone to these tension problems, if the tension clamps get a little worn.

mschwartz · Aug 26, 2020

I am looking at your picture and I wonder if you have grooves worn into the tensioner plate? If so I think using the the small twine is perhaps smaller
than the groove? I think that replacing the tin plate will help your problem, if the spring is collapsed all the way as it appears and you can still pull string
out then the groove is to big for your twine. I replaced that on a international 46 baler and cured most of my knotter issues Good luck, Mike

SHALER · Aug 27, 2020

How about a 1/8 inch machine screw with a matching spring to replace the cotter pin?

Bret4207 · Aug 28, 2020

I had the same general issue with my 68. I ground the grooves out of my twine tension plate and replaced the spring and bolt. That helped. What really helped was understanding that the needle needs to just rub the knotter frame a tiny bit ont he side of the needle AND that the needle needs to clear the twine disc by 1/8" or there abouts. You twine tension keeps the twine tight enough that the twine disc catches it. Getting the twine disc properly located helps too. If it's retarded too much it can miss the twine. My baler is 61-62 years old and you have to adjust with the wear and slop in mind.

743rd Posting about Twine Box Tension

lastcowboy32

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lastcowboy32

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Hayfarmer

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flying belgian

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retired farmer

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JDIH

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lastcowboy32

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lastcowboy32

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JDIH

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tomturkey

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Absent Minded Farmer

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lastcowboy32

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mschwartz

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SHALER

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