Haybine rock guard Lock nut question

Thanks Bro. Another technic have used in past is to torch the extended part of the bolt. I had to torch half the bolts off when I took this apart anyway so it is not like your going to reuse the bolts and nuts again. Probably. Got the nuts half off and then the carriage bolt square would strip and spin in the guard. Appreciate your thoughts. I will adjust hold downs and try it out. If all works as it should, retorque bolts, then maybe I will nip the bolt ends off with torch? In this application I do not think the cutting will change the hardness of the bolt. If you get on it and cut before you burn the bolt too hot. Like cutting stay bolts out of a firebox without damaging the hole to bad. If you get it to hot you have more potential to lose control of the cut and have unintended
damage.

Am familiar with tapered bolts, thankfully not using them. They work wonderfully most of the time but having worked on steam locomotives I find them a lot of work. Maybe needed in that application but not this one. Thanks, John.

Carriage bolts?? Those should be plow bolts or guard bolts (maybe you're just referring to the square shank?). Guard bolts are a little softer &
they'll suck down into that socket better. As for cutting off the excess threads sticking out, Dremel. You might find it to be a touch slower, but it
does a better job. Then you can leave a thread or two sticking out & still bevel the side of the bolt that faces away from the machine. Not that you
need to be that picky, I've just found it to be a little more helpful. Especially before I changed out the old cutter bar on my mower. I was looking
for anything to aide in the cutting process. When I installed a new bar, no worries. I adjust the adjustable hold downs every once & awhile & off I
go. It's a beautiful thing!

Mike

The guards I replaced on my 489 last fall had
carriage bolts, i used the plow bolts absent farmer is
talking about, with lock nuts.





while on the topic did anyone replace the plastic
tensioner for the reel drive with the sprocket?
Dealer sold my the sprocket so i was gonna install it
while iv got the mower apart, or is it better to just
leave the plastic one? Thanks

On my JD 1209 haybine I use carriage bolts to hold guards and hold downs. I have found that plow bolts, as pictured below don't pull into the guards as well and I have had more trouble removing guards with those in it. I use correct length bolts so there is just a little bolt sticking up and I use locking nuts on them. I use the non clog guards with later style JD adjustable hold downs on the top. I have had very little problem with guards lostening up. If I get a broken secton I remove the guard and hold down to get to it so would hate to have the tops of the bolts buggered up with a torch.

When I ordered bolts I ordered 1.5" and the guy told me I needed 20 1.75 bolts. I think almost all the 1.5" bolts with hold downs will be near perfect length. I only have 4 long bolts for the skid plates and attachment pc. I don't think I will have to cut to many bolts to shorten. I have considered just grinding them close to flush and then peen. I will know more about length shortly. Local hardware store only had 2" length for the longer bolts I needed so they are quite a bit longer than needed. Those are the ones I might have to grind down or burn.

I sincerely thought I ordered lock nuts as that had been my original plan from the get go. If local store has them in the size I need I may just go that route. It had been suggested to me from a pretty good mechanic so I was taking his advice. I am sure just about any of these ideas will work in the end. But I like the lock nut idea best.

On bolt length. My parts haybine had long bolts in it and don't see any attempt to shorten them. Not saying it is right, just saying this machine cut hay with longer bolts. That owner is dead too so I can't ask him about it. I pulled it out of the weeds and bought from my widow neighbor. I kind of look at the parts machine a lot to guess what was supposed to be on my better machine as far as sickle, hold downs and any other questions. I know this machine cut a fair amount of hay when the owner still farmed. My repair machine came from down the road further and I never met that owner before he passed. He is the one I would of liked to talk too. The mysterious sickle that came in this machine looks like it belongs to something else. Anyway thanks guys. Regards, John.

Mysterious sickle! Lol, thats what my 489 has. Is
your mower a newholland? What model?

I was lucky to get a free 489 for parts, i cant believe
the prices of some of the parts for them, scrap it?
No way, ill keep it!



I hope to get my good one running this week

Been waiting since july 27 for dealer to get me a knife head!

Yes 489 New Holland. I have seen the teeth which are double teeth per section you can order. Bu
t the register or stroke did not match the guard points or even come close. My parts machine had the standard single tooth sections. The bushings seem good and take grease where the one that came on the machine did not. I have the hold downs or most of them installed but have a few that I need to move the sickle and double check, couple feel pretty tight and a couple of guards that need bending up a tad.

About 5 years ago I put new guards on my NH 469 and did not pay much attention to the tension of the hold downs or the guards. Just put them on. Cut so much better but then the wobble box crapped out. I think that was on its way out since I bought that machine. Was hesitant to spend $500 for a used wobble box as the machine is pretty old and well used. Most of my hay is grassy hay so I don't need the crimping at much as if I were doing straight alfalfa. I am getting old and just want this NH 489 to last longer than me. If I get it cutting it ought to as I don't really cut that much anyway. But between the totally worn guards and the mystery sickle this poor machine was trying to self destruct. It was sickening to listen too. Because of health issues I had not been able to work on this machine and even now it is painful, but I need to get this hay cut before winter sets in. I am so behind on maintenance projects as I couldn't even attempt simple repairs and light duty activities until middle of June or so. Even now the more heavy projects will probably have to wait till next year. Have 40 pigs to be butchered by November or sold off by then. So canning, butchering and repairs, somethings are going to get pushed back. Not the haybine though I need that now.

Couldn't agree more about having a parts machine handy. Most of my parts on the parts machine are junk. But the wobble box and gear boxes seem ok and have some new parts on them. I pray I never have to change one out. Looks like a bear to do. Less play in the parts machine box than my "good machine". Regards, John.

Got to love those 489s. Just love to start the day greasing those zerks on the knife drive. I have two 489s and a parts machine. I believe those are carriage bolts but I reuse the old ones with a new locking bolt. They may be a higher bolt grade then is commonly available at the local hardware.

I was told the nylon block was the upgrade used on later machines and when I replaced the chain I upgraded to the block. Maybe the knife section came out of a 469. I think they fit if you change the drive head. It's missing the correct end knife. I always use the double end knife I think it does make a difference. I had to replace the upper roll pivot bushing in mine. If that bushing gets worn the rolls catch on each other and they pound when empty.

I want to thank all who chimed in about my NH haybine and what path to take. For those amituer farmers like me who are trying to farm with antique machines and learn on the fly how to repair or trouble shoot problems I thought I would attempt to give some photos showing what to look for and look forward to replacing.

On my older 469 NH haybine it had issues too and I finally replaced the rock guards and hold downs. As stated I did not do a stellar job fitting the new parts so it cut way better but no doubt I didn't do a big a favor to that machine as I could of. It was and is a worn out machine. Now I search Youtube or YT for info on best way to approach a repair or trouble shoot. Had no clue on the importance of fitting the sickle, guards and hold downs to make the cutting action smooth as possible.

So if I can get these pics loaded I shot comparison of new parts vs worn out parts. If you take the guards off and are not sure what to look for this might help. The one and I couldn't get a good shot shows a bevel that is worn on the back edge which is supposed to be square and thick. The bevel worn into the guards was making the sickle jump up and tried to get out of captivity when the stroke went to its end. The noise was horrendous and made the whole machine vibrate like tennis shoes in the dryer but worse. Metal on metal is not a nice sound. The hold down clip shown is one of the worst ones, not all were worn through like the one shown, but all were worn and are in the scrap bucket with the guards. I didn't find one I would keep as a spare. The other worn guard is worn fairly square in comparison but is junk too. So compare new black guard against the used and worn out ones for comparison.

I have to adjust a couple hold downs that from above I can see are slightly twisted. Oiled up to help break in while running and I see no binding that scares me or oil whipped clean and bare metal showing. Much quieter except for two single tines hitting the guards every revolution and that is a noise I need to eliminate. It may not hurt much of anything but I want to hear a machine working not clanging and banging like it was when I bought this thing. Have to reinstall a skid plate for protecting the pitman arm motion. It had worn loose and I had to remove to replace the bolts. Should be able to test cut after today. My back only allows me a hour or two at most laying on my back or side so this project has taken me along time to complete. To me it appears almost ready to cut with a few more adjustments. Thanks again for suggestions and your shared experiences. Regards, John.

Oh well I tried to post pictures and have in the past but it isn't working now? Just thought for those not familiar with what a worn out guard and hold down looks like that I would post another example. Thanks all for your help. Regards, John.

Got mine back together yesterday and mowed
about 4 acres, i cant get a video to upload, good
luck on getting yours going too.

Thanks, after alot of searching i found not to use the sprocket, i replaced the #40 roller chain with a new one and left the plastic block in place.