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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

New Holland #68 Baler

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Gullrock

05-14-2015 07:34:31




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This message is a reply to an archived post by DeltaRed on March 05, 2012 at 07:17:52.
The original subject was "Re: New Holland 68 Baler".

Problems with the 68 I just bought. I think my feeder drive chain is incorrect length. My manual from New Holland says nothing about chain links or number of links on any chains. Dealer says new chain not available. I can get the feeder tine bar to time out but the needle drive timing is off. The timing mark seems to be missing on the knotter clutch gear on this baler. No idea why. My friend was sure it was the mark between the two bolt heads so we set it that way and sheared off both needles. The book says the needles should just begin to enter the chamber when the tips of the projections on the face of the plunger have passed the points of the needles by 1/4" to 3/4". Is that when the plunger is leaving the bale chamber? I would think so but I don't know. The local dealer will charge me hundreds if not thousands to fix this baler and I just can't spend that much. Please help me out if you can, It will be much appreciated. Hay in SE Minn is getting tall! about time to mow next week

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Shaun Wallace

05-16-2015 14:56:10




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 Re: New Holland #68 Baler in reply to Gullrock, 05-14-2015 07:34:31  
The plunger runs on wood blocks. So measure chamber and plunger. Most will be trial and error.



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gullrock

05-16-2015 09:44:53




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 Re: New Holland #68 Baler in reply to Gullrock, 05-14-2015 07:34:31  
Looks like I got the baler to time. 2 reasons I had so much trouble; the timing mark on the knotter drive gear did not exist and the main problem: the knotter brake was too loose and was allowing the knotter shaft to rotate slightly. This was why the timing would not stay put and of course working by yourself, you cant see that happening because you are the one turning the flywheel. Once I figured that out, I was able to time the needles so they just enter the chamber when the tips of the plunger are a half inch past. I ran it through several cycles and it stayed put, so I now have a correct mark to time by. Next up is to check the tolerances on the plunger and get it adjusted as correctly as possible, then I'll fine tune the needle adjustment and see if I can get the old girl to tie.If anyone has suggestions for what to d0 [or what to avoid doing,] please share. Thanks to everybody who posted and helped out. I have experience with a New Idea supersheller and McCormick horse mowers. If anyone needs help I will do my best.

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RodInNS

05-14-2015 18:28:48




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 Re: New Holland #68 Baler in reply to Gullrock, 05-14-2015 07:34:31  
I don't know where this bunkum comes from about the number of links in the chain mattering... but it seems to be an urban legend that keeps perpetuating itself. The parts book will list the number of links required for convenience sake so you don't have to cut off the wrong number and then add connectors and offsets to make up the difference.
Without looking at the specific procedure for timing that baler all I can tell you is make sure you're turning it in the normal direction of rotation, keep all slack out of the chain and generally have the needles enter the chamber shortly after the plunger head passes. If not... the charge will snap the needles off as the plunger moves rearward. It shouldn't be a big deal to time it correctly.

Rod

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Leroy

05-15-2015 05:08:43




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 Re: New Holland #68 Baler in reply to RodInNS, 05-14-2015 18:28:48  
RodInNS, I do not know where you are getting your information. On some balers it may not matter but on others it Does matter and the operators manual will tell you what will happen with the wrong number of links. I think you are too young to remember the baler that had that in the book.



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RodInNS

05-15-2015 06:29:32




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 Re: New Holland #68 Baler in reply to Leroy, 05-15-2015 05:08:43  
It hasn't a damn thing to do with my age or the baler. It's got to do with a basic understanding of drive systems and ratios. The sprockets determine the ratio, not the length of the chord connecting them. Period. Saying the length of the chain matters is like saying your truck will drive faster because it has a longer drive shaft...
What does matter to that baler and all other balers is that you get the slack on the right side of the sprockets when you install the chain or else you'll turn it out of time when the slack gets drawn up... and that could be a fair amount when you're working with a double pitch chain.

Rod

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Leroy

05-15-2015 18:02:19




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 Re: New Holland #68 Baler in reply to RodInNS, 05-15-2015 06:29:32  
The number of links is with the back and forth chain,not one that runs continusly. Don't think they used that back and forth chain after the 66 series. I think the 66 series was outdated before you started farming.



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RodInNS

05-17-2015 11:11:00




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 Re: New Holland #68 Baler in reply to Leroy, 05-15-2015 18:02:19  
If you're talking about a chain that has feed times mounted to it... yes, I agree, the number of links is critical because that's not about ratios, it's about positioning relative to the other tines. That's an entirely different issue than a simple drive chain which is what I understood the OP to be talking about.

Rod



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Leroy

05-17-2015 11:27:06




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 Re: New Holland #68 Baler in reply to RodInNS, 05-17-2015 11:11:00  
They do not tell you the exact chain and model of baler so to just say all chains will be good could make problems so that is why I say that on some locations it does make a difference, I also said exactly what the book says. Just don't want someone to think that what works one place works at anouther. Just need that book to be sure.



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Bill VA

05-15-2015 05:59:41




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 Re: New Holland #68 Baler in reply to Leroy, 05-15-2015 05:08:43  
Don't want to get my head chopped off, but on the New Holland 68, the number of links on the knotter drive chain has nothing to do with the timing of it. It is only relevant to how much or little slack you have in your chain.

Same with the pick-up and main drive chain. OTOH - it does matter the number of links on the feeder fork chain, but that's only because the feeder tine bar is connected to the chain and to many links could move it into and out of the wrong position relative to its timing and how the feeder forks move into the bale chamber - which could result in a smashed feeder fork - or worse.

I appreciate everyone's thoughtful help with my questions - as me and the boys listen, learn and apply - we hope to begin to share some of what we know and this post is an effort to do that.

Thanks!
Bill

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mhb@ufe

05-14-2015 17:29:18




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 Re: New Holland #68 Baler in reply to Gullrock, 05-14-2015 07:34:31  
I don't know what dealer your going to but even if NH discontinued the chain by it's part number, they still sell 2040 bulk chain and one can easily be made from the information in the parts look up.

Link

Mark



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tomturkey

05-14-2015 17:26:37




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 Re: New Holland #68 Baler in reply to Gullrock, 05-14-2015 07:34:31  
Bjr has given a pretty thorough summary. Personally I could not have done it on my 269 without the operator's manual. It has detailed pictures, which when your understanding of the parts, ie knotter clutch, knotter drive, clutch pawl, knotter stop and the locations of the timing marks including a picture of the crank position during the timing procedure all led me thru a retime after a knotter drive chain break. For what it is worth, I just replaced the broken link so, I don't know how many links are in the chain. It does not mention a number in the op man. But in big bold letters it says to keep the knotter chain tight to maintain proper needle timing. Find a manual, the more you know the better you will understand the machine. I am not there yet but each season and problem I get a little smarter. good baling....gobble

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Bill VA

05-14-2015 09:58:46




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 Re: New Holland #68 Baler in reply to Gullrock, 05-14-2015 07:34:31  
The chains are available - don't have to go to the New Holland dealer. In fact, my NH dealer didn't carry NH chain - but some off brand. It wasn't like Diamond chain either. So I bought some TSC chain and found it OK for last season. I did however find some Diamond brand chain locally and will probably switch over. The New Holland parts site is pretty good and you can download PDF's of the manual sections and in them are the number of chain links, size and type.

As was mentioned, the plunger stop needs to be working. Maybe there's a way, but on the NH68, I don't think it's possible to break the needles if the stop is working - other than if the needle brake is not working or adjusted tight enough. Lack of a needle brake could let the needles drift or bounce into the chamber.

The timing marks on my NH68 are way off. Can't figure out why. Bottom line is I set the tips of the needles to enter the bale chamber just as the plunger passes them - per the manual. It worked beautifully.

I forget which board, but you can google New Holland 68 manual and there is a PDF of the Super 68 - which is the same baler as the 68, except for a few items, one of which is some kind of rope gizmo that allows you to lift the pick-up from the driver's seat.

Good luck,
Bill

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gullrock

05-14-2015 11:24:09




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 Re: New Holland #68 Baler in reply to Bill VA, 05-14-2015 09:58:46  
Thanks for the reply. I went to the New Holland Parts PDF. When I click on the chains for the feeder and knotter drive, all it says is"not available" with no further info. I am stumped. I really think the knotter drive chain is 1 link too long because even following all the steps in the owners manual, the timing for the needle drive does not stay where I put it. When it keeps creeping, its impossible to tell if I had it in the right place or not. Does that failure to stay put indicate the number of links is wrong? it seems 1 link too long to me as the adjustment has to be all used up to snug the chain. I can see where a previous person added 2 offset links. Sure appreciate the help!

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Jo Bird

05-16-2015 04:52:18




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 Re: New Holland #68 Baler in reply to gullrock, 05-14-2015 11:24:09  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

gullrock

I've read this entire post and the one thing that Nobody has addressed is the STRETCH it the chain. Yes after years of running the chain is now longer. This is important because although the same number of links are between the gears the distance is now longer and that puts them out of time. Their are measurements for each size chain, you should check for the size chain you are using. This is my simple way to explain the problem, say you have 68 links and each one is now 1/32 " longer. The result equals 68 X 1/32 = 2.125 ". Half of that on one side of the chain advances one gears rotation by about 1 " out of time. Just how much this plays into your problem I do not know, but it is food for thought.

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flying belgian

05-14-2015 14:19:37




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 Re: New Holland #68 Baler in reply to gullrock, 05-14-2015 11:24:09  
Wait a minute. Let's think about this. I don't have a 68 but the concept should be the same. I don't think it matters how many links are in the chain as long as the tightener will keep it tight. When the knotter trips it will cycle the knotter one round and release. All the other time the chain is just free wheeling. It seems to me even if your chain was 1000 links long the knotter would still release after it made it's round. Maybe i'm not thinking about this right but I think I am. Anybody???

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Bill VA

05-14-2015 12:13:42




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 Re: New Holland #68 Baler in reply to gullrock, 05-14-2015 11:24:09  
If you look at the parts list, for example, the knotter drive chain is #5 and a #5A. If you look at the description of it, it will say RC 2050. This is the chain you need to buy. The #77 in the qty is the number of links.



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Eugene SWIA

05-14-2015 08:20:50




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 Re: New Holland #68 Baler in reply to Gullrock, 05-14-2015 07:34:31  
The parts book will give you the number of links to use. On the needles they should be entering the bale chamber as the plunger is entering it's compression of hay in chamber. tip of plunger should be past the tips of needles as are they enter the chamber. Make sure SAFEFTY LATCH IS OPERATING PROPERLY. Needles can be welded and be reinstalled. If you can't find a timing mark on the sprocket I can look at mine and see if you figure out where to set it.
Gene

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gullrock

05-14-2015 11:30:03




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 Re: New Holland #68 Baler in reply to Eugene SWIA, 05-14-2015 08:20:50  
Eugene, I got a big favor to ask; if you have a 68, can you get me a count on the links for the needle/knotter drive chain? And if you can give me an idea of where the durn missing timing mark should be, that would sure help. Thanks! Jeff



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Eugene SWIA

05-18-2015 03:12:04




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 Re: New Holland #68 Baler in reply to gullrock, 05-14-2015 11:30:03  
Gullrock
I counted 65 links including a 1/2 link. Should have got that done quicker. I don't have a timing mark on my knotter drive gear either Looks like you got it timed right.
Gene



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bjr

05-14-2015 12:08:35




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 Re: New Holland #68 Baler in reply to gullrock, 05-14-2015 11:30:03  
I think you are correct in wanting the chain links number. I have a NH269 that I went thru the whole scenario on. I contacted New Holland factory who then told the dealer who then told me. That process was about a month long ordeal. I've got the 269 links number wrote down somewhere (150 full with 1 connector link and 1 (1/2) link) I did this from memory so take it with a grain of salt. I just don't know if its the same for the 68. And do tighten the chain as tight as you can and feel comfortable doing so. The arm off of the gear box had to be 12 oclock and then the needles in home position which was all the way retracted as I remember. Then the marks on the gears lined up. The local New Holland guys told me "Don't ask why the number of link are important, but it just is". I took that to heart and after two years of frustrations I finally got the 'ol girl tying consistently, but, WHAT a battle. I feel your pain. I did finally have to buy some new aftermarket needles because mine had been welded so many times. bjr

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