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Square baler to work with my Workmaster

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Shealray

10-29-2011 18:33:18




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I am looking for a square bailer which will work with my Workmaster 601.

Any list of balers and the hp to run them? I need this baler to be cheap a fix er upper.
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Mel in SW Iowa

10-31-2011 08:19:02




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 Re: Square baler to work with my Workmaster in reply to Shealray, 10-29-2011 18:33:18  
Logic may seem to indicate a baler with a motor on it would be a good choice for a smaller tractor without live power, but the balers in my experience (IH 50T) are a lot heavier, so they would be a poor choice in hilly ground or pulling hay wagons on rolling ground. In the hills or pulling wagons on rolling or worse ground, tractor weight and quality of braking system is
very important. I have never encountered a lack of
power problem pulling a small square baler with a
48 JD B or larger tractor ( IIRC 32hp, 5,000#.

Live pto is very handy, but not necessary.

An over-running clutch on the baler or add-on is
a necessity if you have live power, and maybe a live saver with non-live pto. Your live power pto brake will not survive stopping a baler
or a bush hog shredder on the tractors I have the most replacement experience with. (JD 530-720) I am trying to avoid learning any more about the pto brake on an Oliver 1650D and 1365D than I already know.

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Hogleg

10-31-2011 06:44:51




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 Re: Square baler to work with my Workmaster in reply to Shealray, 10-29-2011 18:33:18  
I have run my 68 on my ford 3cyl 2000 this year. The Live PTO is out on it so I have to engage the pto then start the tractor (or the PTO lever grinds way too much to engage). It did fine. Only ran around 300 bales this year. Rest went to the round baler on the bigger 2550 JD Diesel. Plenty of horsepower in these fords, and the baler does not need much. Will get the clutch fixed this winter and then get my Live PTO back but did fine without it. We drop the bales on the ground and all of the fields were flat. I really like the smaller tractor on the square baler and for raking.
Your workmaster will do fine on one of these older NH balers. Don't be so picky on model, just buy the first that is in good shape. A flat wore out baler will drive you nuts, and a good running one will make you smile all afternoon. Heck, mine looks older that dirt, but bales perfect (with a little help from the guys on this board). Only cost me $200.

John

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RayP(MI)

10-30-2011 18:11:38




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 Re: Square baler to work with my Workmaster in reply to Shealray, 10-29-2011 18:33:18  
Have a NH 268 that I have run very successfully with a Farmall 200, and a JD B. Even pulling haywagon behind. Balers don't require a great amount of power. Need a tractor capable of pulling what turns out to be a fairly heavy object. On hills, I have been known to run a little short of traction from time to time. Not having a live PTO need not be a serious handicap if you think ahead, starting up baler, getting it up to speed before starting a windrow, not making huge windrows. Similar experience with an Oliver T60, but not recommended - shakes the dickens out of rear of tractor. My wife's MF 180 just plays with baler and loaded wagon

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northvale

10-30-2011 17:23:51




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 Re: Square baler to work with my Workmaster in reply to Shealray, 10-29-2011 18:33:18  
JD 24T's are nice.



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KEH

10-30-2011 15:24:35




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 Re: Square baler to work with my Workmaster in reply to Shealray, 10-29-2011 18:33:18  

It dosen't take much hp to run a square baler. See if you can find a NH baler with rollers on the plunger, uses less horsepower. A 268 or 273 probably would work. Horsepower is used, other than to actually pull the baler around, to pack bales tighter or go faster. There is nothing in the rules saying you can't go in 1st gear if that's what it takes. For a tractor with no live power, get an overrunning clutch if the baler dosen't have one. My old 67 NH had the overrunning clutch built in, but I think I used it one time with a tractor with no live power and didn't bother with it again since I had a tractor with independent power. The no live power teactor was a 25 hp Case S and it pulled the baler, but it was slow in the gear i pulled it with.

KEH

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rankrank1

10-30-2011 09:57:55




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 Re: Square baler to work with my Workmaster in reply to randy hall, 10-29-2011 18:33:18  

Shealray said: (quoted from post at 17:45:39 10/30/11)
This is my world ask and you receive if you are willing to receive.

I will find a NH 65 for a real good price and in good shape.


Good luck, I looked for quite some time before I found one and it was not in very good shape either when I found it - did not pay much for it though. The NH 65 compact baler was only made a few years (1960-1964?) and was discontinued. That said they are great balers if you can find one. All the other new holland balers,while slightly bigger, enjoyed long production runs and are evolutionary models so they are plentiful and cheap. Very little change on the evolutionary models so many parts interchange.

Search "Dan Welshans" on this forum. He has uploaded several youtube videos baling with a 4 speed Ford NAA/Jubilee and a NH 66 baler. I personally would go with a 67-273 to get a baler with less wood in it. The 66 is has lots of wood in it and uses a wadboard feeder - some people love the 66 and some hate the 66 that reason. The 66 dates to the early 1950's and was truly a pioneer at the time, but is much less modern than say a 67 or 68 (67 and 68 are same baler except tongue. 67 is short tongue and 68 is longue tongue).
This post was edited by rankrank1 at 10:09:39 10/30/11 3 times.

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rankrank1

10-30-2011 09:35:21




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 Re: Square baler to work with my Workmaster in reply to GordoSD, 10-29-2011 18:33:18  

Shealray said: (quoted from post at 16:55:55 10/30/11)
My Workmaster is a 641 with 5 speeds...I only am going to square bail my little 5 .5 acres...


That 5 speed tranny makes your Workmaster a 651 and not a 641 which is a bonus since 2nd gear on a 651 is like 1st gear on a 641, Jubilee, NAA, 8n, etc. Unfortunately, 1 gear on the 4 speeds is borderline too fast in some situations for baling since you have to keep throttle set close to 540 PTO rpm speed and you can not push the clutch in either (since no live PTO). That 5 speed will allow you to go slower if need be which is a bonus.

Lots of hay was baled back in the day without live PTO it just takes smart raking so as to not create monster windrows with big slugs. Heck I bale with a Kubota compact tractor. It does not have Live PTO and is less hp and much lighter in weight than your Workmaster.

That said when baling with small low horsepower tractors then careful baler selection is critical similar to towing a trailer with a pick-up truck. If your truck has a small 6 cylinder engine it will not tow the same trailers that a big V8 will - or a big diesel will. Lots of hills and you better go smaller on the selection whether that be towing trailer with a pickup truck or a baler with a low hp tractor. Often it is best to simply drop bales on ground instead of attempting to pull a wagon with a small low hp tractor.
My baler recommendations would be:

a) Modern mini balers are avialable from MicroStar and other foreign manufactures for itty bitty compact tractors but at $15K new are not cost feasible for 5 acres.

a) New Holland 65 (smallest cheap vintage baler available although not real common. Easy parts support as NH has the best parts support and many parts interchange with its bigger NH brothers)

b) Ford 520 (small like the NH 65 but Ford baler parts are nearly impossible to find).

c) Any New Holland 66-273 (Except the 77 which is an albatross. Super models prefered in the 2-digit series for better plunger bearings).

d) John Deere 14T or 24T

e) Some of the old MF like #3,#9,#10, etc. might be viable risks if price is cheap enough, but parts and user support will not be the greatest.

In short, Any cheap baler that your tractor can run well is going to be 40-50 years old so you better like to tinker. New small square balers from the mainstream manufacturers are higher capacity and therfore like more tractor hp so are not really viable options for low hp baling, plus they would be too expensive anyway for 5 acres.

There are literally hours worth of reading on this subject with some careful searching on this forum as well as other forums.
This post was edited by rankrank1 at 09:48:12 10/30/11 3 times.

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Shealray

10-30-2011 09:45:39




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 Re: Square baler to work with my Workmaster in reply to rankrank1, 10-30-2011 09:35:21  
This is my world ask and you receive if you are willing to receive.

I will find a NH 65 for a real good price and in good shape.



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charlie n

10-30-2011 08:39:37




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 Re: Square baler to work with my Workmaster in reply to Shealray, 10-29-2011 18:33:18  
Neither my 335 and 601 have live PTO and I don't have a problem pulling a 269 NH.As said watch how you rake and learn to adjust to conditions.Field conditions are something to consider too.You got a lot of hills it might give you trouble. The 4 speed trans can be an issue.Some times 1st is to slow and 2nd might be to fast but on the other hand my 335 has a 6x4 with the same issue.I've never had the privilege of a tractor with live power in the 45 plus years of working but have managed to survive.Dad always said plan ahead. We put up 3500 to 4000 bales a year and haven't had to call for help yet.Take your time and enjoy the ride.Life's to short.Good Luck.

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Shealray

10-30-2011 08:55:55




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 Re: Square baler to work with my Workmaster in reply to charlie n, 10-30-2011 08:39:37  
Yah for my side.
My Workmaster is a 641 with 5 speeds. I know I love to use my 501 sickle to cut with it. Because of the front end loader and the weights in the back plus the power steering it feels real stable balanced to me a blessing in disguise. I only am going to square bail my little
5 .5 acres. Only need 1 bale a day for the evening feed.

Now I will find my perfect little baler thanks to all of your help, farming expertise. You are such wonderful people to help. Do not underestimate the guidance it is worth more then all the gold ever found on this planet.

Here is my cycle of life.

I cut the hay to feed my 3 horses, Lama, goat, and pig.
They all come in at night in their stalls and give me compost.
I put the compost in a big pile and let it cook.
After cooking I put the compost on my garden spot for the season.
I plant in the garden and the gift of food feeds me and the honey bees.

My precious bee’s partners in the garden give me the sweet taste of honey.
I tell every one who will listen and some that do not this.
We are all in this together I heard the call.

What effect one of us affects us all.

Be Happy Be Safe

Shealray

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old

10-30-2011 09:23:13




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 Re: Square baler to work with my Workmaster in reply to Shealray, 10-30-2011 08:55:55  
Impossible for it to be a 641 if it has 5 forward gears. The 4 in 641 stands for 4 speed. So what you have if you do not have live PTO is a 651 again the 5 tells us it is a 5 speed with no live PTO



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495man

10-30-2011 04:53:50




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 Re: Square baler to work with my Workmaster in reply to Shealray, 10-29-2011 18:33:18  
You can pull/drive most small square balers with 25 PTO HP and no live PTO, you just won't be super happy if you don't rake right....

We baled for years with a W4 and MF #9 pulling a hay wagon. How is that for "you can't do that"
Just don't rake the windrows big and pull out of the windrow ASAP if the baler starts to load heavy.



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sixtyninegmc

10-30-2011 02:21:22




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 Re: Square baler to work with my Workmaster in reply to Shealray, 10-29-2011 18:33:18  
Well, the manual for our IH 430 baler says it needs a 2 or 3 bottom rated tractor to pull it, and our hesston inline requires 35HP, but as others say a live PTO is almost a must. When my dad was a kid they baled with an 8N and it drove `em nuts, but it did do it until they got a JD with a live PTO.

I would say your best bet is a self-powered baler, any of the older balers had the option.



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old

10-29-2011 18:58:00




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 Re: Square baler to work with my Workmaster in reply to Shealray, 10-29-2011 18:33:18  
What model 601 is it??? As in is it a 641 or a 651 or 661 or what. Reason I ask is if you do not have one with live PTO then you have another problem before you get started. Years ago I would use my Ford 841 to bale hay but boy what a pain with no live PTO. yes it can be done but is a real pain in the back sides. That said many balers could be used like the JD- 14T or 24T or some other such JD balers. Or what I prefer a NH say a 271 etc etc

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Shealray

10-29-2011 19:05:49




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 Re: Square baler to work with my Workmaster in reply to old, 10-29-2011 18:58:00  
My Workmaster sorry to say has no live drive. So I guess I have to use my Ford 5000 to bail. I use the Ford 5000 to run my Vermeer 506C round baler. I did not think about the live drive. I do like using the 501 sickle on the Workmaster. So am I dead in the water with no live drive?????



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old

10-29-2011 19:16:54




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 Re: Square baler to work with my Workmaster in reply to Shealray, 10-29-2011 19:05:49  
So then is it a 4 speed= 641 or a 5 speed= 651. If it had live PTO it would be a 661. As for dead in the water no it can be done just a pain in the back sides due to if the baler clogs it is hard to stop to let it catch up and clear. That is why I use tractors with live PTO to bale with now days but I now have extras to work with



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Shealray

10-29-2011 19:25:32




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 Re: Square baler to work with my Workmaster in reply to old, 10-29-2011 19:16:54  
Lots to think about.
THANKS



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Leroy

10-30-2011 07:17:30




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 Re: Square baler to work with my Workmaster in reply to Shealray, 10-29-2011 19:25:32  
Never had a live pto when had the baler and no problems at all. Later had a 5000 and on that tractor if would have had baler at that time would never have tried it if would have had one of the older tractors without live pto because that 5000 pto was a junk design and would not hold a good speed, same as the 3 cylinder 4000 tractors, put one on the AC 60 combine once and the John Deere B handled it better. Your problem with the 601 would be if it is the 641 4 speed you do not have a low gear, 651 with 5 speed no problem and will do better than the 5000 as they actually have a govener style that works.

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chevytaHOE5674

10-31-2011 06:53:13




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 Re: Square baler to work with my Workmaster in reply to Leroy, 10-30-2011 07:17:30  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Musta been something wrong with the PTO clutch pack on your 5000. My 5000 holds speed fine and dandy. Makes a wonderful bailing tractor.



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Leroy

11-05-2011 08:03:42




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 Re: Square baler to work with my Workmaster in reply to chevytaHOE5674, 10-31-2011 06:53:13  
The Ford tractor dealer and mecanick told me that about the govener design on the blue series tractors was junk and would not hold an engine speed, the govener design on the gray series tractors was a different design and was good. On all three 4000 & 5000 Fords you could not set and hold a PTO speed.



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steve08

10-29-2011 22:36:45




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 Re: Square baler to work with my Workmaster in reply to Shealray, 10-29-2011 19:25:32  
How bout a baler with an engine on it? No pto needed...



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old

10-29-2011 19:32:48




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 Re: Square baler to work with my Workmaster in reply to Shealray, 10-29-2011 19:25:32  
I learned the Live PTO problem some 30 or so years ago and have since learned live or independent is the way to go with a baler. This summer I used a Farmall 340 to bale my square bales is has an independent PTO Last year I use an Allis D-17 it has a live PTO by way of a power director both work well.



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DeltaRed

10-29-2011 20:04:30




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 Re: Square baler to work with my Workmaster in reply to old, 10-29-2011 19:32:48  
Hi Old,I have a Super M with the M-W live pto hand clutch.It is sure nice to have on a baler...And a lot better than the other kind.



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old

10-29-2011 21:00:24




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 Re: Square baler to work with my Workmaster in reply to DeltaRed, 10-29-2011 20:04:30  
Ya funny how you can take a tractor like say a Ford 841 that as per the book is around 45HP and it does the job but no live PTO makes it a problem. Then you get say an Oliver 77 with live PTO but less HP as in 38 as per the books and it is like the difference of night and day. Also found out the Oliver 77 at 38HP would out pull the Ford 841. Some people say HP is HP but you factor in the torque of a 6 cylinder over the torque of a 4 cylinder and the 6 wins hands down

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Doug Wi

10-30-2011 19:04:31




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 Re: Square baler to work with my Workmaster in reply to old, 10-29-2011 21:00:24  
tire size is a big factor too. 77 has 38" while the ford would have 28" . Makes a big difference when the going gets tough.



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Roy in UK

11-01-2011 00:19:53




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 Re: Square baler to work with my Workmaster in reply to Doug Wi, 10-30-2011 19:04:31  
The two tractors I am comparing had the same size rears (16.9 14x34 )



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Roy in UK

10-30-2011 00:27:48




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 Re: Square baler to work with my Workmaster in reply to old, 10-29-2011 21:00:24  
Yes horsepower is meaningless compared with torque. We had a 78 hp International but the 78hp Renault (also 4 cylinder ) we bought would out pull the International easily. curiously "on paper" the Renault had only 11lb/ft torque more than the International but indeed the IH engine seemed gutless compared with the MWM.



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