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JD 336 hates turning while running

A

Anonymous-0

Well-known Member
I've got a weird issue with my 336, which is making perfect bales by the way. It runs great in a straight line. I'm running it a little under 540 rpm PTO, probably closed to 400 or so. When I'm turning when it's not picking up anything the makes a terrible racket like something is coming apart and as I straighten out it sounds great. It seems to especially dislike turning to the right, left doesn't seem quite as bad. I'm not turning tight at all, the u-joints havn't even begun to start knocking. Is this a plungerhead adjustment issue? Maybe it's too lose in the chamber and the back and forth motion while turning is causing it to bang side to side? It's bad enough to where I just pull the rpm's back to idle as I'm making a turn and turn as gradually as possible. Maybe this is just typical of square baling as I'm just starting out and there may be a technique I need to learn.

Thanks!
 
Do you have a two u-joint powerline or three with the equal angle hitch.

Symptom is normal for the two joint.

If you have the three joint there are several things that have to be right. Do you have the drawbar set at the 14" dimension? Are you using the equal angle hitch? Are the u-joints in proper phase? Do you have an Operators Manual?

Need more details.
 
Its usually the left turn that has to be kept short. Sounds like you don't have it hooked up right.Right turns should be quiet.
 
Thanks for the quick replies. My particular baler only has the standard 2-joint single shaft. There is no noise in the driveshaft. Something in the baler is making the racket and it sounds like the plunger is binding or something during the turn and the baler starts to buck a little during the turn.

I do have a manual but its a bit more geared towards setup and adjusting more than operating tips.
 
Just an idea, but do you have the equal angle hitch but are not using the front member that bolts on your tractor drawbar? I've seen this before and it can mess up the pto geometry. Mike
 
Either the drawbar is set at the wrong length or the shaft is binding. Shafts seldom ever make noise. They transfer their strain somewhere else and the noise could be as far forward as the flywheel in the tractor or in this case mabey in the baler. I'd pull the shaft apart and make sure it's not bent and that it's sliding freely. IF it's binding a bit, even a little bit... that could be enough to make noise.

Rod
 
If you have the 2 u-joint powerline you have to shut if off when turning, period. It was a cheaper option than the 3 joint.

If it were mine, I would get a replacement 3 joint powerline with tongue and equal angle hitch. Then you can make short turns without chatter.
 
I have a 336 with the 2 U-joint driveline and don't have any problems turning in either direction.

We did have a lot of racket out of it one year any time it didn't have hay going through it. Turned out that the pin that holds the plunger arm to the plunger had begun turning (there is a cotter pin that's supposed to keep it from doing that) and it had worn the bushings in the plunger into an oval. After fixing that and replacing the plunger bearings (we already had it apart so why not?) all the racket went away.

I would be sure to check the drive line shafts as well as the slip clutch, flywheel, pitman arm bearings or any thing else that may be loosening up. If you don't have an owners manual, get one. There is a lot of information of making the necessary adjustments to the baler contained in it.

Josh in WNY
 
When a U joint is turned(bent), it is no longer at constant velocity. Hard to explain, but in reality it speeds up and slows down.It jerks the drive train when that occurs. This is what causes the noise you are hearing.Maybe someone else can explain it better.
 
I think Rod might be on the right track.. I have to run my 1209 mow/cond on a different tractor than my 3020 once a year at my folks place. The drawbar on dads tractor wont extend out far enough thus when I turn my pto shaft covers bottom out slightly. I make sure I dont turn it like I can with my 3020. Because of this Im manufaturing an extension to solve this problem..
 
The PTO shafts on the tractors a lot of them are not centered to the drawbar and that will make the shaft make doise when turning one way and not the other as that makes the u-joint bend sharper one way than the other and the 2 joint shafts are very bad about that. I second getting the correct (better) 3 joint shaft and problems will be solved.
 
I can get a picture of it in a few day's when we're baling. It's not hooked up at the moment.

The drawbar on my tractor extends out a bit past the PTO shaft on the tractor. I didn't make sure, but I don't think the shaft is bottoming out during turns. The frequency of the racket it is making during turns is exactly that of the plunger.

I finished the first 90 bales through the baler after replacing the pitman arm bushings and pin. They were completely shot. It's super tight now.

The roller bearings on the plunger were tight and rolled nicely so I did not replace them. They seemed in excellent shape. The rear lower wear block has a litlte wear but I think there is a shallow notch milled into it and the current wear isn't much past that at all. The chamber is nice and straight and the knives are within spec.

I guess I can understand how a bind in the driveline could cause things to go weird in the rest of the baler but it just sounds like it's completely coming from the plunger. Maybe I need to remove the hay when we're done baling, turn the tractor a little, engage the PTO and watch the plunger from the rear.

I cannot hardly turn to the right at all without it starting the buck badly.

I'll get a picture up soon.
 
I have 2ea 336 balers. Recently, the slip clutch on one was rusted stuck so the baler gearbox shaft became bent under heavy load. While running the other one, I noticed a little wobble in its shaft, so I assume they bend easy. That may be your problem.
 
I remember years ago the standard setting for running a pto, the drawbar should be 14 1/2 inches longer than the pto shaft. Otherwise the pto could tighten up and rattle when you turn.This was back in the 50's and 60's so I really don't know if that still applies. Some shafts I know are made different. It would not apply to all.
 
(quoted from post at 20:19:32 10/25/10) I've got a weird issue with my 336, which is making perfect bales by the way. It runs great in a straight line. I'm running it a little under 540 rpm PTO, probably closed to 400 or so. When I'm turning when it's not picking up anything the makes a terrible racket like something is coming apart and as I straighten out it sounds great. It seems to especially dislike turning to the right, left doesn't seem quite as bad. I'm not turning tight at all, the u-joints havn't even begun to start knocking. Is this a plungerhead adjustment issue? Maybe it's too lose in the chamber and the back and forth motion while turning is causing it to bang side to side? It's bad enough to where I just pull the rpm's back to idle as I'm making a turn and turn as gradually as possible. Maybe this is just typical of square baling as I'm just starting out and there may be a technique I need to learn.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

U-joints are out of phase. Or the drawbar isn't set at 14".
 
I'll double-check the phase on the shaft. The drawbar on my tractor has a fixed hole in the drawbar to mount it but I'll run out and measure it again tomorrow. I think I remember seeing something in the manual about having something added on to the tongue of the baler but I'll have to see what that's all about.
 
That is still standard for all 540 rpm pto's. And with the PTO on a lot of John Deere tractors set about 3" to right of centerline of tractor it exagerates the problem especially if the toung and pto shaft angle forward to the left from the implement as many do, not so much if toung is at a 90* to implement. The older Farmalls the pto was exactly center of tractor so it did not bother as much. I would guess that baler shaft angles to the left comming off the baler and he has a tractor with the pto shaft slightly of to the right and that is why it would make turning to right impossible while turning left is possible but noisy. And a 2 joint shaft will be 100% worse than a 3 joint because of the angle settings of the joints.
 
I'm going to try and show a picture of the owners manual I have for the 336. It shows the hitch settings for both the 2-joint and 3 joint pto drivelines. (Let's see if it comes through)
a24586.jpg
 
What kind of tractor? I believe the 14 or 14 1/2 inches others have mentioned is an ASAE standard. My NH manual specifies the distance for the tractor drawbar to extend. On my JD 50 tractor I offset the drawbar slightly from center to meet the requirement of keeping the drawbar in line with the PTO shaft. My baler has the 2 joint shaft and I can turn to the right with no problem, but notice some PTO line rattling on sharp left turns.

Some have mentioned "out of phase" on the shaft. Exactly what is that? I think I know but would like someone to explain in some detail.
 
(quoted from post at 12:15:36 10/27/10) What kind of tractor? I believe the 14 or 14 1/2 inches others have mentioned is an ASAE standard.

Some have mentioned "out of phase" on the shaft. Exactly what is that? I think I know but would like someone to explain in some detail.
Click to expand...

Actually SAE drawbar setting from end of pto shaft to center of tractor drawbar hole for 540 rpm is 14" and for 1000 rpm is 16" but none are 14 1/2"

Phase of pto u-joints is if one laid both ends of a telescoping shaft on a workbench that remained slide together each corresponding end of joint the caps with needle brgs on one side would be resting on workbench on each end. Most telescoping pto shafts have an indexing mark or shafts are not square but rectangle or on European style only will go together one way. Some repaired drive shafts have been known to get out of phase from incorrect repair.
 
I think Roger has this right. Turn the pto off when turning. I have a Hesston in-line small baler and I can turn all day to the right, but it really dislikes turning to the left. I've made a habit of turning the pto off when turning. No problems then. My Hesston dealer told me this was the way to do it. Sometimes you have to turn left while baling, but it isn't as bad as long as hay is going through. It's turning left with no hay entering the baler when it makes a racket.
 
Look at Josh's reply below showing the two types of hitches for 336.

In both cases the drawbar hitch pin hole must be 14" from the end of the tractor pto shaft. That is an ASAE standard for all later tractors so that they are compatible for all implements. The 14" is for the 1 3/8" 540 six spline tractor pto shaft!

There are older tractors that do not have the right pto shaft or drawbar settings capability.

There are some later tractors that do not have the pto shaft centered over the drawbar and that can cause troubles too, i.e. JD 2000 series utilities.
 
i have read that some shafts need to run the joints 90 degrees out of alignment,was hard to believe as i was taught to align them,but i found out that it is true when we purchased a peanut combine and the shaft was 90 degrees out, decided to try it, and to my surprise it doesn't chatter no matter which way you turn, on the contrary the other machine has the joints aligned it will chatter like a monkey if you turn it very much, also my haybine is aligned it chatters worst to the left,going to try changing them to see if will help them when i get ambitious
 
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