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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Vermeer vs JD

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canada_mike

03-04-2010 14:58:02




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Wanting to purchase my first round baler. Looked at a next to new (less than 1500 bales) early year Vermeer 505 SI (with narrow untwisted belts and NO hydraulic tensioner). It also has gathering wheels. Basically has sat unused since new. Asking price is 8000 CDN firm. Also saw a JD 530 that is in good shape and sat for past 6 years shedded and unused. Asking price is 6500 CDN OBO. Need some insight and advice on these two machines.

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kilroy-lemmond1

03-09-2010 18:57:34




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 Re: Vermeer vs JD in reply to canada_mike, 03-04-2010 14:58:02  
I had a Vermeer 504F and it had trouble starting a bale and i had trouble with the tying mechanism. I sold it ang bought a used JD 466 and I like it much better. It makes a tighter bale and is net wrapped. Roy



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Tx Jim

03-09-2010 03:30:54




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 Re: Vermeer vs JD in reply to RodInNS, 03-04-2010 14:58:02  

Hay DR said: (quoted from post at 21:47:26 03/08/10) New Holland out sold each both Vermeer and JD.

We are the #1 round baler dealership in the USA. Now Little TX Jim you know the rest of the story.
Hay Equipment Headquarters



Funny thing that's not what ----- --pany representative stated when I talked to them a while back about your statements.!!!!! !!!!! !!!!! !!!!
If your the largest Vermeer dealer in USA then do you pay a DEALERSHIP FEE to Yesterdays Tractors every time you post one of your photo ads on this discussion forum????? ????? ??
If JD's lawsuit details were not disclosed then how do you know all the finite details????? ????

[/quote] The Vermeer is heavier and will pull with less PTO HP at faster speeds and produce heavier bales than the JD[/quote] This sounds as if the tail is wagging the DOG

Now tell me the rest of this story!!!!! !!!!! !
This post was edited by Tx Jim at 04:22:34 03/09/10 2 times.

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Tx Jim

03-08-2010 04:00:49




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 Re: Vermeer vs JD in reply to cc1, 03-04-2010 14:58:02  

mmidlam said: (quoted from post at 18:33:06 03/07/10) This is what I heard. Vermeer didn't make the old JD balers. John Deare coped Vermeer and then lost the lawsuits. Vermeer used the money to build their new factory.


I heard JD copied and was sued by Hesston located in Hesston Ks. not Vermeer.
If one looks inside a JD rd baler the tension arm with rollers that raises up & down resembles a Hesston.

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Tx Jim

03-06-2010 14:42:54




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 Re: Vermeer vs JD in reply to M Nut, 03-04-2010 14:58:02  

larryh said: (quoted from post at 17:06:44 03/06/10) we sell parts for balers and the jd bearing is smaller and double the price of the vermeer ---why would anyone love green paint that bad ---we have 4 jd balers around us and all have been junk


I don't remember stating I loved green paint that much!!!!! !!

If someone ever bales enough hay with a Vermeer baler to warrant those low priced bearings can you tell them how to replace them without the aid of a cutting torch? How much are Vermeer's 1/2 priced bearings compared to JD bearings????? ??

The junk JD rd balers around you were either the first models 410/510 or needed someone who knew how to bale hay. It takes an good operator to bale rd bales with any brand rd baler!!!!! !!!!! !!!!! !!!!

Talk is easy but the walks a lot harder!!!!! !! You any GOT PROOF
This post was edited by Tx Jim at 14:45:53 03/06/10.

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Tx Jim

03-06-2010 12:47:56




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 Re: Vermeer vs JD in reply to Zachary Hoyt, 03-04-2010 14:58:02  

Hay DR said: (quoted from post at 11:20:21 03/06/10) The Vermeer is heavier and will pull with less PTO HP at faster speeds and produce heavier bales than the JD. You can just do more work in less time with a Vermeer.
third party image
Vermeer Super M Baler



Do you have proof????? ????? ????

What engineering miracle has Vermeer performed so that The Vermeer will pull with less PTO HP at faster speeds and produce heavier bales than the JD or any other brand for that matter????? ????? ????? ??
Plus if they are so far ahead why doesn't one see more of Vermeer rd balers baling than other brands. Maybe you need to open a National Vermeer Dealership. You are probably a dealer that sells more rd balers than any other dealer in the USA.

I'm not saying Vermeer rd balers aren't one of the oldest brands or that Vermeer balers aren't good balers. I'm saying I don't think Vermeer rd baler lead sales in the USA.

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Hay DR

03-08-2010 17:47:26




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 Re: Vermeer vs JD in reply to Tx Jim, 03-06-2010 12:47:56  
New Holland out sold each both Vermeer and JD.

We are the #1 round baler dealership in the USA. We have sold around 2400 new Vermeer balers. Just try to find 10 other dealers that have sold 2000 added all together, you would not find them. The average dealership sells 2-4 round balers a year. We average selling over 50 new balers a year. In the 1990ís our lowest total was 58 and that is because Vermeer sold out of balers in June and we did not receive any more balers until October. In 2004, we sold 98 new Vermeer balers. We have sold over 250 used JD balers through the years. These JD balers were trade-ins, not auction purchases. We trade for any color paint and have to put them through our shop and make them field ready. We know what makes all the colors tick. Now Little TX Jim you know the rest of the story.

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Tx Jim

03-06-2010 03:36:05




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 Re: Vermeer vs JD in reply to mike321, 03-04-2010 14:58:02  

larryh said: (quoted from post at 18:23:56 03/05/10) after you leave vermeer just leave the hay in the field----serious we sell parts for both and the deere with those octagon bearings is one peice of junk


How many times have you baled with a JD baler with hex shaft brgs? NONE probably. Well I've baled way over 100,000 bales with a JD. Last one I traded off had 30000 on the monitor. Hex shaft brgs are easier to change than those with lock collars. No need for the BIG BLUE FLAME!!!!! !!!!! !!

BTW if Vermeers balers are so great how come none bale hay anywhere around me????? ????? ??

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larryh

03-06-2010 13:06:44




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 Re: Vermeer vs JD in reply to Tx Jim, 03-06-2010 03:36:05  
we sell parts for balers and the jd bearing is smaller and double the price of the vermeer ---why would anyone love green paint that bad ---we have 4 jd balers around us and all have been junk



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Hay DR

03-06-2010 07:20:21




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 Re: Vermeer vs JD in reply to Tx Jim, 03-06-2010 03:36:05  
third party image

You are so far behind the dust of the Vermeer you can not see the Vermeer because they ran off and left you. The little 1 1/4" hex bearings in the the JD are dwarfed by the 1 3/4" hex bearings on the Vermeer M Series balers. Just check the thickness of the metal in the pickup. The Vermeer pickup steel is 25% thicker than the JD. The Vermeer has rubber mounted teeth that will last 5 times longer than the JD steel teeth. Vermeer's 2 7/16" Idler rolling bearings vs. the 1 1/4" JD bearings. Where's the BEEF? In the VERMEER.
JD balers need stuffers to keep the hay flowing into their baler. All Vermeer balers use the direct feed concept, that is why the Vermeer will leave the JD in the dust. The Vermeer is heavier and will pull with less PTO HP at faster speeds and produce heavier bales than the JD. You can just do more work in less time with a Vermeer.

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KEH

03-05-2010 15:23:44




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 Re: Vermeer vs JD in reply to canada_mike, 03-04-2010 14:58:02  

I have a 505 I, not super, and it rarely fails to start bales. I had a MF badged equivalent to a 504 F and it had trouble starting bales IF it was not adjusted properly and was missing pickup teeth. Worked fine if it was in proper tune. The 505 I is more forgiving, but it needs to have its teeth in good condition. As I understand it, the JD does not have a bottom roller and that system needs to have those diamond tread belts in good shape to start bales.

KEH

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larryh

03-05-2010 14:23:56




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 Re: Vermeer vs JD in reply to canada_mike, 03-04-2010 14:58:02  
after you leave vermeer just leave the hay in the field----serious we sell parts for both and the deere with those octagon bearings is one peice of junk



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Tx Jim

03-05-2010 04:36:03




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 Re: Vermeer vs JD in reply to marlowe, 03-04-2010 14:58:02  

newter haven said: (quoted from post at 22:21:29 03/04/10) The jd is older than the vermeer,I had a lot of trouble starting a bale because the machine couldn't get that slick stuff to start rolling, and the 435 jd had the same problem.
The twine system on the jd is excellent, better than all of the balers I've ran, and that also makes for a better day! Good luck!


435 should start a bale as well as any other JD 30,35,66,67 or 68 series rd baler. The only reason a JD 435 will not start a bale is missing/ broken pickup teeth,PU set to low,slipping PU belt,worn out upper belts or bars on steel starter roll have lost grip.

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Tx Jim

03-05-2010 04:26:47




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 Re: Vermeer vs JD in reply to W7BCW, 03-04-2010 14:58:02  

pair=a=dice farm said: (quoted from post at 22:28:15 03/04/10) I may be way off base but didn"t Vermeer make the JD 530? I have a Massey Ferguson 1560 that is made by Vermeer, the same as a 605H I believe. I makes good bales but, as has been mentioned, it is hard to start a bale in some hay. I have a neighbor that had a JD 530 and it was a good baler but if the Vermeer 505 is an open throat I would pick it over the JD.


JD rd balers are built in Otummwa,Iowa by a JD Company factory. I picked up several at the factory on an 18 wheeler back in the 80's.

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pair=a=dice farm

03-04-2010 18:28:15




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 Re: Vermeer vs JD in reply to canada_mike, 03-04-2010 14:58:02  
I may be way off base but didn"t Vermeer make the JD 530? I have a Massey Ferguson 1560 that is made by Vermeer, the same as a 605H I believe. I makes good bales but, as has been mentioned, it is hard to start a bale in some hay. I have a neighbor that had a JD 530 and it was a good baler but if the Vermeer 505 is an open throat I would pick it over the JD.



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mmidlam

03-07-2010 14:33:06




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 Re: Vermeer vs JD in reply to pair=a=dice farm, 03-04-2010 18:28:15  
This is what I heard. Vermeer didn't make the old JD balers. John Deare coped Vermeer and then lost the lawsuits. Vermeer used the money to build their new factory.



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Hay DR

03-08-2010 06:43:01




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 Re: Vermeer vs JD in reply to mmidlam, 03-07-2010 14:33:06  
The round baler patent infringement suit was between JD & Hesston and JD & Vermeer. The settlement was private but JD lost to both Hesston and Vermeer. JD had to pay Hesston a per baler license fee to the end of the vertical bale forming patent. JD is a large customer of Vermeer because JD outsources many parts made by Vermeer, so Vermeer has an interest in keeping JD's business. It is true that Vermeer built a building in 1993 after the settlement the building cost $9 million then and it houses JD & CAT parts production.

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newter haven

03-04-2010 18:21:29




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 Re: Vermeer vs JD in reply to canada_mike, 03-04-2010 14:58:02  
The jd is older than the vermeer, I would guess, right? Are you set on a 5x5 or 5x6 machine? Where I'm from (Missouri), the 4x5 bale is popular because of width restrictions on public roads. We rented a 430, 435, 530, 535, Vermeer 504 h, 504i, one Owantonna 4x5 (soft center), one of the new Gehl 4x5 balers, (which was a wonderful machine, head not wide enough), all good machines. Here's a warning, if your hay is not course or should I say slick when it's dry,(like fescue and bluegrass) stay away from the vermeer, I had a lot of trouble starting a bale because the machine couldn't get that slick stuff to start rolling, and the 435 jd had the same problem. It seemed to me the more wear on the belts the more problems with rapping, on the bottom roller. We bought the 430,530,535 jd new and you could eject a bale and run right into the windrow without a problem getting the bale started, which made for a fine afternoon! I'm not down playing the vermeer at all because I've never ran a new one. The new Gehl even had problems in the slick stuff. The only baler that had no problems was the soft center Owantonna and that was some years ago! I ran a New Holland chain baler and it worked just fine in all kinds of hay but the bales weren't very tight. The twine system on the jd is excellent, better than all of the balers I've ran, and that also makes for a better day! Good luck!

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M Nut

03-04-2010 16:34:23




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 Re: Vermeer vs JD in reply to canada_mike, 03-04-2010 14:58:02  
I have the late model 505 superI, and I really like it. Have never used a John Deere, and am not sure if the early Vermeer would operate much different than the late model. We've baled about 10,000 bales with our Vermeer, it had baled 6,000 prior to our purchase, and we have not done anything to it.



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