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Disc bine w/Impeller?

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larryanderson

02-02-2010 09:03:03




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I recently sold my 499 hydra swing haybine.I am looking at a discbine w/ impeller system instead of rubber rollers.Has anyone had experience with system.THANKS!




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Tx Jim

02-05-2010 04:23:35




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 Re: Disc bine w/Impeller? in reply to jd6620, 02-02-2010 09:03:03  
mike321

Does your hay test give RFV of your sample? My neighboring dairyman told me that RFV is more meaningful than TDN in determining hay quality.



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Shaun Wallace

02-02-2010 19:31:18




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 Re: Disc bine w/Impeller? in reply to larryanderson, 02-02-2010 09:03:03  
Used to cut with JD 945. Cut mostly coastal,wheat,sudan. Has resivour that held 4gal oil.Changed once a year. Think had to replace couple spindles. several shear hubs, several oval covers and lots of blades if got in rocks.What I really liked was how fast ground speed was over sickel



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RodInNS

02-02-2010 18:35:03




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 Re: Disc bine w/Impeller? in reply to larryanderson, 02-02-2010 09:03:03  
They did a little study/field trial around this area a few years ago comparing impellers to rollers... They found that impellers did a superiour job in all crops here which was basically alfalfa/timothy/clover/brome.
I have a Deere roller type now but if I was looking for another today it would be an impeller type. Most likely Kuhn or Claas. The 'hard on alfalfa' thing is just bunk too...

Rod

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phillip d

02-04-2010 18:21:35




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 Re: Disc bine w/Impeller? in reply to RodInNS, 02-02-2010 18:35:03  
That's for sure,we've made 24% 3rd cut alfalfa before with an impellor.Talk about running when the cows lift their tails lol,can almost feed straight barley and mineral with that stuff lol.



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RodInNS

02-04-2010 20:14:29




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 Re: Disc bine w/Impeller? in reply to phillip d, 02-04-2010 18:21:35  
Yeah... You hear someone sucking in air, winding up to cough close to you, just duck. It'll sail right over ya. I've seen them hit cows on the other side of the barn when they're on annual ryegrass....

Rod



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Stuart

02-02-2010 21:40:18




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 Re: Disc bine w/Impeller? in reply to RodInNS, 02-02-2010 18:35:03  
Wanna bet? I had a JD 956 Moco with the impeller. All the dealerships where pushing them. Went to the state farm show and the Reps there told me in no way is an impeller designed for alfalfa. Tell me this, The theory behind an impeller is that it suppose to strip all the wax off the stem to accelerate hay drying..... that being said, how can you strip all the wax off the stem with out beating all the leaves off which if you didnt know contain most if not all the protein. Impellers are great for most of all the crops that other people have talked about on this post but not alfalfa. I cut 400 acres of hay and have a 26,000 RHA and when I went to the impeller my feed quality went down hill. Now if your feeding beef cattle and not dairy cows then that might be fine. But of the 15 impeller machines that use to be in the neighborhood none of them are left. Everyone traded them for roll machines. It is hard on alfalfa. Even Deere will tell you that. Some people seem to think that and impeller breaks more back windows out of tractors in rocky conditions but that is unproven. Although the only window I ever broke out of a tractor was with an impeller. Our neighbor has two roll machines and he took out three windows. so who knows...

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RodInNS

02-03-2010 10:21:32




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 Re: Disc bine w/Impeller? in reply to Stuart, 02-02-2010 21:40:18  
IIRC, what they did here was an emperical study on drying time and feed value. Impellers came out ahead, much to the consternation of those doing the study as it went against their belief system also...
Personally I've never seen a bit of difference between them.

Rod



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mike321

02-03-2010 14:26:43




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 Re: Disc bine w/Impeller? in reply to RodInNS, 02-03-2010 10:21:32  
Do you milk cows? or feed dairy cows. Is your income soley based on dairy cows. My feed tests went down and I could not get the hay dry at all, I could grind it up so it looked like mulch but not get it dry. sorry, thats the way it is.



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RodInNS

02-03-2010 19:47:10




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 Re: Disc bine w/Impeller? in reply to mike321, 02-03-2010 14:26:43  
Yes, we squeeze em...
Lots of guys around here testing 20% + CP and 70% + TDN with finger/comb conditioners on first cut haylage in alfalfa/timothy mixes. No problems with drying in hay either...
I use a Deere wiht rollers but I really see no appreciable difference.

Rod



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mike321

02-03-2010 20:40:19




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 Re: Disc bine w/Impeller? in reply to RodInNS, 02-03-2010 19:47:10  
how wide is your machine? Must not be very heavy hay.....



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RodInNS

02-03-2010 20:59:36




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 Re: Disc bine w/Impeller? in reply to mike321, 02-03-2010 20:40:19  
9'9" (Deere 1460). Others are Kuhn FC300 and FC301's....
Hay is heavy enough to plug the rollers on the Deere...
Tedders are standard equipment here. We have no allusions or halucinations about making hay without one.

Rod



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mike321

02-04-2010 07:19:23




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 Re: Disc bine w/Impeller? in reply to RodInNS, 02-03-2010 20:59:36  
Anybody can get hay dry behind a 9ft 9in cut, I have a 15 ft cut and I can only lay it out as wide as you do. No matter how wide you can cut, the discbine can only lay out so wide. You can keep your impeller, I cut hay at 10 mph and it is big pure alfalfa and I dont plug the rolls at all. Like I said the deere dealerships around here have lots full of used impeller machines if you want one of those pos. We just rake two swaths together. Do you have grass in with your hay? Impellers are bad for alfalfa, end of discussion, your wrong. sorry

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RodInNS

02-04-2010 08:18:17




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 Re: Disc bine w/Impeller? in reply to mike321, 02-04-2010 07:19:23  
It's nice that you just identified your own problem... You're cramming 15' of crop into 8' of swath, no tedder and you expect it to dry?
Around here that would be a recipe for mulch... unless it was an awful light crop.
We've been known to see mixed stands of timothy and alfalfa at probably a 50% mix that will wrap the rollers of many discbines at 6 MPH. I've done it enough times to learn...
I like cutting at 10 MPH too. Just can't in some fields.
I'd sure like to see some empirical, statistical evidence that impellers are bad for alfalfa too... because there's been none to support that theory around here, nor anywhere else for that matter.

Rod

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mike321

02-04-2010 19:11:29




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 Re: Disc bine w/Impeller? in reply to RodInNS, 02-04-2010 08:18:17  
You just proved me right. I said pure alfalfa, you know the kind you feed to high producing dairy cows. nice going genius. By the way tedders are great way to beat all the leaves off. I dont have time for a tedder. I cut, let dry and rake to swaths into a windrow with the wheel rake. I dont have light crops everything I cut is al least 2.5 to 3 feet tall. Uh you want evidence.... my production went down. So let me get this straight... you cut, tedder the hay and rake it...anyone who knows anything about hay knows that the more you handle it the more leaves you loose. By the way you never answered my question... Do you rely soley on your farm for income or does you wife work in town. I will admit timothy is hard to get dry and thats why I said that it is hard on alfalfa. All my silage and bales had less leaves in them and the stems were less crimped reducing palatablity. If I had a 9 footer it would take me two weeks to get my hay cut.... Whats your RHA? People like you make me laugh. Come to wisconsin and learn how to farm..

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mike321

02-04-2010 20:32:38




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 Re: Disc bine w/Impeller? in reply to mike321, 02-04-2010 19:11:29  
my tdn is 73%



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RodInNS

02-04-2010 20:36:30




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 Re: Disc bine w/Impeller? in reply to mike321, 02-04-2010 20:32:38  
Without digging out a test report, that sounds quite comparable...

Rod



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RodInNS

02-04-2010 19:32:32




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 Re: Disc bine w/Impeller? in reply to mike321, 02-04-2010 19:11:29  
Farming is my main source of income.... which include milking cows and selling hay to the horsey set.
No wife either, not that it much matters.

You need to advance outside your bubble from time to time because you're methods will possibly leave you with an empty silo, definitely an empty hay barn and an empty tank around here.
You don't make much hay here without a tedder and certainly not alfalfa... The last 2-3 years it's gotten to be fairly normal to flatten a field of hay shortly before or during a rain storm, hit it with the tedder as soon as the sun reappears, then the next day, early, do it again.... then hope you can start raking by mid-late afternoon, then damn well bale it that day come hell or high water. Otherwise it's getting washed again.
Most of our alfalfa/timothy mixes simply go in the silo because there's really no hope of ever seeing it dry.
There's also two reasons for the mix... One is that it's not entirely uncommon to see alfalfa completly wiped out here some winters, so it's nice to have something.... and the second is that pure alfalfa makes great protein and poor TDN. A mix, cut at the right time always makes better feed 'here'.

My RHA is nothing to brag about, but I can assure you it has nothing to do with the type of conditioner I use... which as I've said 2 or 3 times already.... happens to be a roller.
We worked for a lot of years with just a straight mower and no conditioner... the only real reason for having the conditioner is to cut a step out of picking up haylage. For actual hay it probably saves half a day at most.

Rod

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Ken Macfarlane

02-04-2010 07:04:28




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 Re: Disc bine w/Impeller? in reply to RodInNS, 02-03-2010 20:59:36  
I live in a similar climate to rod. I cut in the same field as the neighbours NH489 (sickle w rubber rollers) and we couldn't find any difference in dry down time.

To be fair, its almost completely a measure of tedder performance here. Heavy yields and damp conditions.



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Mike Aylward

02-02-2010 16:56:26




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 Re: Disc bine w/Impeller? in reply to larryanderson, 02-02-2010 09:03:03  
Larry, I have a John Deere 946 with impellers and use it in alfalfa. It works very well. You can set it to do practically nothing to the hay or you can set it to "meal" it or anywhere in between. From what I have seen the idea that impellers are hard on alfalfa is a myth. The cutterbar does more damage than the impellers do. My local dealer convinced me to go the impeller route and from what I've seen it was very good advice. I have no feeding troubles, no bunching troubles and have been very happy with the drying of the hay, even in the last two years of difficult haying weather. I am well satisfied with the impeller system. Mike

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larryanderson

02-02-2010 15:25:14




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 Re: Disc bine w/Impeller? in reply to larryanderson, 02-02-2010 09:03:03  
Thanks for input.I am looking at a Gehl 2512 that is 4 years old and well taken care of the price is 10K which is probably 1/2 of new.I used my 499 for 6 years and it brought the same as it cost and had no problems but took care of it and was always shedded.I was told the JD and Gehl have same cutter bar



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Lee in Iowa

02-03-2010 07:32:53




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 Re: Disc bine w/Impeller? in reply to larryanderson, 02-02-2010 15:25:14  
Gehl is out of the farm equipment business. By law they have to make parts for a few more years, but the law doesn't limit what they can charge for them



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kyhayman

02-02-2010 14:14:30




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 Re: Disc bine w/Impeller? in reply to larryanderson, 02-02-2010 09:03:03  
I had an older Deere with impellers, it did a good job. If you were running grass hay you set the pulleys one way, alfalfa and leafy hay you set them the other. I was well satisfied with the job it did conditioning. Only problem was the whole machine was worn out.

I just got a NH with rollers. It was more a price and availability decision rather than a preference. If they had an impeller machine for a dollar less in the same condition I'd have gotten it, a dollar more and I would have gotten this one. Personally I had just as much success with a disc mower and tedder for hay curing. As my acres to cut doubled this year though I felt like I needed the wider cut and saving the time I spent riding the tedder.

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TractormanNC

02-02-2010 12:08:05




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 Re: Disc bine w/Impeller? in reply to larryanderson, 02-02-2010 09:03:03  
On the advice of some members of this forum, I bought an impeller machine about 2 yrs ago. Might be able to find it in the archives. Advice given then was the same as given by Mnut and paul. We don't do alfalfa but it works fine in orchard grass and sudex.



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Ken Macfarlane

02-02-2010 11:25:53




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 Re: Disc bine w/Impeller? in reply to larryanderson, 02-02-2010 09:03:03  
My discbine is impeller type. I've heard its no good for alfalfa. I've run it in clover and it seems ok. It doesn't crush weed stalks as well so they tend to cause spoilage if they get in a bale.



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thurlow

02-02-2010 11:00:40




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 Re: Disc bine w/Impeller? in reply to larryanderson, 02-02-2010 09:03:03  
Used a Taarup for a long time, mostly for Sudan-cross hybrids (Sudex); nothing bad to say about it. It's a simpler design (fewer moving parts) than a roller/crimper type conditioner. Never used it for alfalfa/lespedeza/clovers, but I don't know why it wouldn't work



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Tim(nj)

02-02-2010 09:45:14




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 Re: Disc bine w/Impeller? in reply to larryanderson, 02-02-2010 09:03:03  
You didn't say what brand or model it is, but I know some Deere impellers are driven with non-lubed gears, that when they wear out, cost a lot to replace.



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cd1

02-02-2010 13:59:21




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 Re: Disc bine w/Impeller? in reply to Tim(nj), 02-02-2010 09:45:14  
that pair of gears is about $900. my 920 needs them, hopefully i can get this season through mine then they are getting replaced.



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M Nut

02-02-2010 09:44:27




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 Re: Disc bine w/Impeller? in reply to larryanderson, 02-02-2010 09:03:03  
Got an impeller on my John Deere. I cut mostly orchard grass/clover mix and wide blade canary grass. Works great for me, never tried it in alfalfa. Don't know how that would work as far as potential leaf loss.



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paul

02-02-2010 09:17:30




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 Re: Disc bine w/Impeller? in reply to larryanderson, 02-02-2010 09:03:03  
I haven't.

Hear it works in grass, not so much in alfalfa.

--->Paul



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