FSM External Hydraulics

I will soon be tackling the hydraulics on my 61 Super Major and I want to confirm that I will be able to run the external hydraulics I have
acquired for the tractor.

I have a front end loader setup with four dual acting cylinders and an external directional control valve, a dual acting PTO mounted wood
splitter, and a PTO mounted snowblower with dual acting cylinder for the chute.

I am not entirely sure how to plumb the system. I have two complete FSM 3pt hitch lift covers, hydraulic pumps, and external services
valves to work with for parts. What are the appropriate pressure and return ports on the tractor? I assume I will be able to switch back
and forth between the loader hydraulics and the chute hydraulics for snow removal purposes via the selector lever and/or the aux services
control knob but I am unable to find any literature on this.

Steiner Tractor parts (and others) also sell a Hydraulic Valve Adapter Kit to run external hydraulics and I am curious if this is
something I will need. I have attached a photo of the top cover on my parts tractor. It seems this has had external hydraulics plumbed at
some point in time.

Any help is appreciated.

The valve on your parts tractor is a single acting valve, that just diverts the flow from your single acting lift arm hydraulics. You will need the dual acting, single control, like the one from Steiners. Personally, having worked on the Majors, many moons ago, I wouldn't mess with trying to run your loader off the rear hydraulics, I would put a front pump on it.

Can you please elaborate a little more on this?

I have searched for a front/engine mounted pump solution but am unable to find anything that I can make work, at least not that I've seen yet.

I was hoping the rear hydraulics would be sufficient.

( Major Man, jump in here if I'm incorrect on the original valving, I haven't messed with them for over 50 years, and we changed them all over to a double acting valve.)

What you have is a single acting valve, hydraulic pressure one way to raise the implement, gravity lowers it by just allowing the fluid to return to the reservoir. It will not work for cylinders that need pressure both directions, such as a wood splitter, or a loader with down pressure. The valve that Steiner sells, does that. To run a loader, you would need a stack valve, one to run the rear hydraulics, one for loader lift, one for bucket. I don't know if they make them anymore. Your hydraulic system is driven by your pto shaft, so it will have to be in gear to run your hydraulics. If it has the two stage clutch, you can still run the hydraulics with the clutch depressed half way(1st stage). If it has a single stage clutch, the hydraulics will stop, every time you depress the clutch. Steiner and others, sell the front pump drive couplings and shafts. Surplus Center have reasonably priced hydraulic pumps, and mounting brackets. Some loaders have the mounting bracket built into their front mount.

That is very helpful, thank you. Seems I will need the valve from Steiner either way to run my wood splitter and blower chute. They sell the adapter plate as well as a block off plate for the factory external services valve, I assume I will need both of them? I will contact them also for the crank mounted pump hardware. I like the idea of a seperate pump to run the loader. I will just have to find a good place to mount a resovoir. Any idea what approximate system volume will be required for a stand alone pump to run the loader?

I am aware of the PTO shaft needing to be engaged to run the rear hydraulics. My tractor is not equipped with live PTO, either. Having the loader hydraulics run off the engine would make life much easier in this regard.

I guess the crankshaft pulley parts are not available through Steiner. Any other suggestions on where to look?

I would agree with Skipper but would also add that I have fitted and used implements on the tractor hydraulics with some success. I would also suggest caution on your additional plate under the Auxiliary Service Chest as I have found that some do not have the correct porting arrangements and may isolate the ram cylinder.

You could mount a bank of spool valves and feed them from the normal outlet on the AS valve, the return oil normally goes back in through a modified filler cap behind the seat.

The engine crankshaft mounted pump would give you the best option, the coupling on the front pulley should be a fairly easy fabrication job once you have the pump.

If at all possible, I would like to run my implements on the existing hydraulic pump. I am new to the world of hydraulics but I have a basic understanding of what I need to do.

Correct me if I am wrong but, a spool valve controlling a dual acting cylinder has a pressure and a return line, and the position of the valve determines which line is the pressure and which is the return? Or am I looking at this the wrong way?

So if I modify the fill cap and plumb the system with the pressure coming from the existing AS valve and the return to the modified fill cap, I should be able to tee into the existing pressure line and run one implement at a time ie snow blower chute OR front loader cylinders, operated with seperate spool valves, with good results?

Hopefully this makes sense. Looking forward to the responses.

Been trying to find a picture but to no avail.

Yes, you have the right idea, feed the valve block from the AS port, oil flows through the block (open centre) and returns through the modified filler cap. When you operate a lever on the valve block, oil will be diverted to a port for pressure and the opposite port will open for return to tank (rear axle). Lever in other direction and oil flow is reversed. (Double Acting).

My wood splitter works straight from the AS valve, out and back to tank with the double acting valve as part of the splitter rather than the tractor.

Going completely off track but had you thought of changing your chute turning ram to an electric actuator? Most of the forage harvesters now are electric control.

Found a picture to give you an idea. This is a bit elaborate for what you need.

Majorman, very helpful as usual. Good call on the electric blower chute, I will certainly look into it. Thank you for the clarification on the hydraulics, that pretty much answers all my questions.

I had a very busy weekend working on the Super Major and now that it's back together and not working, I have a few more questions.

I have attached an after pic of the rear section after many many hours of cleaning sludge and debris. I got it satisfactorily clean and used the hydraulic pump and pto shaft from my parts tractor as my original pto shaft was bent and the drive gear was contacting the pump housing. Overall the rear section of the parts tractor was much cleaner inside.

The hydraulic pump from the parts tractor was clean and felt nice to turn by hand. I did not disassemble it as I did not have o rings on hand.

I bolted the top cover on without disassembling anything under there as it was all very clean. I worked on the AS valve for a few hours, which is also in very nice clean condition. I pulled the plug out from the flow control valve and it was clean and moved freely. I freed up the flow control valve screw and the aux port valve. I replaced all O rings and the gasket where it bolts to the top cover.

When the tractor is running with pto engaged, the pump is whining, making sort of a cavitating noise. Oil is getting to the AS valve. Lift arms do not operate but they move freely by hand. If I move the selector lever upward to lift the arms, the noise from the. pump gets worse. I have not yet tested the pressure at the AS outlet as I need an adapter for my pressure gauge.

Any input is appreciated on the matter, I plan to work on it again tomorrow.

I got my pressure gauge hooked up today and was able to get a reading.

The lift arms do in fact operate, I had left the AS knob in the out position so it was sending the pressure to that port. the arms go up smoothly and will lower with a small amount of weight with one hand when the lever is lowered.

However, I am still only able to get a max of 17-1800psi at the AS port and the pump is very noisy. It has a noise at idle but much worse under load so I will have to pull the cover to investigate.

Majorman said:

Been trying to find a picture but to no avail.

Yes, you have the right idea, feed the valve block from the AS port, oil flows through the block (open centre) and returns through the modified filler cap. When you operate a lever on the valve block, oil will be diverted to a port for pressure and the opposite port will open for return to tank (rear axle). Lever in other direction and oil flow is reversed. (Double Acting).

My wood splitter works straight from the AS valve, out and back to tank with the double acting valve as part of the splitter rather than the tractor.

Going completely off track but had you thought of changing your chute turning ram to an electric actuator? Most of the forage harvesters now are electric control.

Click to expand...

Good day to you Brian,on a FSM that a friend has that uses the same system as you describe that worked well after draining out all the hydraulic oil and leaving the plug out to repair leaking brake seals and brake/clutch shaft that took a long time after putting it all back and using the hydraulics it now does not work and only a small low pressure flow comes out from the pipe.Nothing else in the circuit has been touched and forums suggest that it is the fault of the valve block seals etc which have been changed to no avail.I have read your book about JJ wright of Dereham and with your knowledge of these tractors could you please give me some advice.My thoughts are that as the filler was left out for a long time is it possible that the gauze filter dried out and is restricting the flow ,also how do you renew the paper filter within the sump next to the gauze filter.I am in Norwich and are you available for private consultations?

tonyninety said:

Good day to you Brian,on a FSM that a friend has that uses the same system as you describe that worked well after draining out all the hydraulic oil and leaving the plug out to repair leaking brake seals and brake/clutch shaft that took a long time after putting it all back and using the hydraulics it now does not work and only a small low pressure flow comes out from the pipe.Nothing else in the circuit has been touched and forums suggest that it is the fault of the valve block seals etc which have been changed to no avail.I have read your book about JJ wright of Dereham and with your knowledge of these tractors could you please give me some advice.My thoughts are that as the filler was left out for a long time is it possible that the gauze filter dried out and is restricting the flow ,also how do you renew the paper filter within the sump next to the gauze filter.I am in Norwich and are you available for private consultations?

Click to expand...

You can always e-mail me direct on bheatbtconnectdotcom. The most likely cause of your problem is the unload valve has stuck. This can happen if she has been left, not used, for some time. You can drop the gauze filter out of the bottom with the removal of the four studs around it. If it is the unload valve, the top will have to come off, so you will need some lifting gear. Whilst in there I would fit a set of "O" rings and a new piston seal. The paper return filter fits on the bottom of the return pipe and there is also a valve there that you unscrew. That valve keeps a pressure of around 12 psi in the system and is important as that pressure is needed to get the unload valve working properly.

The "O" ring on the unload valve, if fitted, is a special Ford one, do not use any other. If you do, you will be storing up trouble for the future. It could be a metal piston ring if you are lucky which is the later one. They will work happily without the ring, that was the Ford fix back in the day. Do not drive the unload valve and plug out from the rear, use a socket and bolt or something similar to pull the plug from the front. I have driven them out in the past but I now keep a slightly bent unload valve on my desk to remind me not to do it.

The other problem you may have is a stuck flow control valve in the ASC. This is perhaps, the easiest to check first. If you have a spare unit, try changing it, if not, drive the expansion pin out of the plug, you may have to drill and tap a small hole in the plug to put a screw in to give you some leverage. The flow control valve can be removed with a piece of wooden dowel rod, tapped in and twisted. I usually take the small screw out of the housing and completely remove the valve and spring, polish it with Brasso and put it back using an electric drill on the dowel and spin it whilst working it backwards and forwards in its seat. Then replace the spring, "O" ring, plug and expansion pin.