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Fordson Tractors Discussion Forum

Fordson Dexta Has Diesel in the Oil Pan!!!!!!

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Shep1

12-01-2019 18:13:37




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As the topic states I have found that I have fuel in the oil pan.

Here is what I know. This old girl has a lot of "blow by"..and I mean a lot..there is so much crankcase pressure that oil weeps out from under the valve cover gasket, it has black, wet soot that blows out of a leak in the exhaust manifold connection to the tail pipe..

When I hold my hand over the valve cover hole where I add oil..the blow-by pushes my hand off. So, I know she has some issues with rings I guess.

I have tried Bardal engine stuff that may can "help" with blow-by but still has smoke and blow-by. Now I will say that she gets up to temp, the smoke does diminish, but is still there.

Power? This old girl will throw you out od the saddle in you are not hanging on so..Power You betcha!

Ok, so now this brings me to the title of this thread. Can this engine..(ring?..issue).. cause diesel to go by the rings and into the crankcase?

When I drained the crankcase I collected almost 5 gallons of diluted oil..

Input from Deutz Lover and Majorman on another thread I posted has suggested a possible leak from the Simms pump into the crankcase..

So, I have studied my tractor manual but it doesn't break down the pump into that level of detail as far as what type of seal may be worn and even if I can get a replacement...

Any thoughts and wisdom greatly appreciated!!

Shep

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Shep1

12-05-2019 07:55:03




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 Re: Fordson Dexta Has Diesel in the Oil Pan!!!!!! in reply to Shep1, 12-01-2019 18:13:37  
n
Ok here is the latest. I left the drain plug out of the oil pan with a bucket under it to see if any dye colored oil would show .

The next evening I found maybe a cup of dyed fuel with a soot color to it also. Crap! So, after some fine wine..I decided that I could have residual fuel in the crankcase, so I left the bucket there another day. So, last night I looked into the bucket and it was just a tad of oil so I was right and that residual fuel just had to drain out.

So, I put a new oil filter in and new oil. Sprayed the injector pump springs, etc and put the plate back on the injector pump and decided to crank the old girl before it got too dark.

Well, crap again..no joy..the system has been bled really good, so what now?

As I was cranking I notice puffs of really fine mist coming out of "somewhere" around the pump area. Its dark now so I got a work light and saw that the plate that between the exhaust ports was spewing diesel. (really fine mist)

So, what does this plate cover and is there suppose to be fuel in there and since it is leaking could that keep the engine from cranking?

Lastly, to DL..I'm in east central Mississippi.

Another shot the "Beast"..It was sold to me as an "English Ford 3000"..It had turn signals, etc at one time. I completely broke it down, had the engine rebuilt, new clutch and sanded and repainted it..back in 1992. After I get through with "Glenda" I'm gonna clean put another paint job on it and repair a couple of greasy spots. I call it the Beast because of the pure power it has for such and old tractor..

Thanks,

Shep

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Majorman

12-05-2019 08:49:53




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 Re: Fordson Dexta Has Diesel in the Oil Pan!!!!!! in reply to Shep1, 12-05-2019 07:55:03  
What you have is a leak on the pre-combustion chamber covers, they can be s-ds to seal at times. there is only a thin copper gasket and you have to make sure the surfaces are clean. You will get a mist of diesel because that is where the injectors squirt into. Once she is running you will see a little smoke.

I would get her started and warmed up then go around the three studs and see if you can get them a bit tighter and seal the leak before stripping the plate off. If that fails, take the plate off and clean both surfaces well before reassembly. New gaskets/copper seals are readily available from any Massey Ferguson (spit spit) dealer as the MF 35 and 135 use a similar engine.

You may not get her to start easily if the glow plug and fuel primer in the tap is not working. Diesel sprayed on to the glow plug burns and causes a flame in the intake manifold which is drawn into the cylinders and fires her up. In some cases you can get away with not having this system working in hot climates, but for me, any indirect injection engine like the Dexta needs either glow plugs in every cylinder or the flame in the manifold. Working on early Perkins engines, on which the Dexta engine is based, on cold mornings we would hold a burning diesel-soaked rag over the open inlet manifold to get them to fire up.

40 seconds on the heater, two pumps on the primer, listen for a "pop" in the manifold then hit the starter and away she will go.

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Deutz Lover

12-03-2019 20:35:33




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 Re: Fordson Dexta Has Diesel in the Oil Pan!!!!!! in reply to Shep1, 12-01-2019 18:13:37  
Shep1,

Is your other beast a 3000 or possibly a 4000SU? I cannot tell from the pic angles.



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Deutz Lover

12-03-2019 20:21:19




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 Re: Fordson Dexta Has Diesel in the Oil Pan!!!!!! in reply to Shep1, 12-01-2019 18:13:37  
Shep1,

Where are you located? State or part of the country.



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Shep1

12-02-2019 19:16:56




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 Re: Fordson Dexta Has Diesel in the Oil Pan!!!!!! in reply to Shep1, 12-01-2019 18:13:37  
Thanks...new muffler with new exhaust pipes...the PO elected to put the exhaust out the top, but thanks goodness he didn't put a hole in the bonnet!

So, I am putting it back as it was originally..

thanks again!

Shep



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Deutz Lover

12-02-2019 18:57:33




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 Re: Fordson Dexta Has Diesel in the Oil Pan!!!!!! in reply to Shep1, 12-01-2019 18:13:37  
I believe that Derwen1959 is in the UK and therefore silencer refers to a muffler.



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Shep1

12-02-2019 18:22:49




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 Re: Fordson Dexta Has Diesel in the Oil Pan!!!!!! in reply to Shep1, 12-01-2019 18:13:37  
I had the glow plug out on the test bench to make sure it functioned. Other than that, do I need to do anything else to it?
Also, I am not familiar with the "silencer" you referenced, can you pls help me out with that?

Thanks!



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Deutz Lover

12-02-2019 18:21:38




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 Re: Fordson Dexta Has Diesel in the Oil Pan!!!!!! in reply to Shep1, 12-01-2019 18:13:37  
I like the Dexta because it has a draw bar rating of over 4000 pounds and a three point hitch rating of 2000 lbs.



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derwen1959

12-02-2019 18:15:06




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 Re: Fordson Dexta Has Diesel in the Oil Pan!!!!!! in reply to Shep1, 12-01-2019 18:13:37  
You should fit new glow plug as well as cleaning air
Filter and fit new silencer as this one will be restricted as full of crap



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Shep1

12-02-2019 18:13:29




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 Re: Fordson Dexta Has Diesel in the Oil Pan!!!!!! in reply to Shep1, 12-01-2019 18:13:37  
Yep the breather is clear..however, I can't say how clear. So, thanks to your input I will be sure to be certain it is breathing as it should...the PO didn't take very good care of this fine tractor..



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Shep1

12-02-2019 18:08:51




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 Re: Fordson Dexta Has Diesel in the Oil Pan!!!!!! in reply to Shep1, 12-01-2019 18:13:37  
Yes sir..I totally removed the air cleaner assembly, (when I got it home it was a mess)..put it in my blast cabinet, de-greaser bath and cleaned the mesh until I could eat off of it... The new thermostat I purchased looked just like any one I would buy for my '87 hunting truck but when I compared it to the one that was in the housing there was a huge difference. So, I put the "original" in water on the stove and watched it open and actually got a good reading from my spot radiometer (Ir-thermometer) and I think I remember it opening around 165 or was that the inside temp of the chicken I cooked this past weekend.??.can't remember exactly but I did chose to keep the original in it because it looked like no other thermostat I have ever seen..so according to the new temp gauge it tracks really good. Also, put in a new water pump while I was at it..

Thanks for your input!

BTW..yep...purchased most of my parts so far from YT online..can't beat them!!

Air breather when I first got her home..

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Shep1

12-02-2019 17:53:16




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 Re: Fordson Dexta Has Diesel in the Oil Pan!!!!!! in reply to Shep1, 12-01-2019 18:13:37  
I think you nailed it..When I took the line loose there was such a drip that I had to raise the line up until the drip stopped. So, I feel this is going to be my problem.

I replaced the fuel shutoff valve that contained a new pump when I rebuilt the fuel tank, but apparently the new pump is letting fuel leak by. Jeeez....who woulda thunk! (not me)

So, it is going to be a few days before I can get oil back in give the old girl a go..so I will report back in a few days after I have a really good idea that this is fixed.

So, going to post a couple of pics of my other "beast", that is my main squeeze...





Yep..I'm a Ford man alright! "Glenda (Dexta) when I first brought her home..



Giving the Old girl a face lift..Next spring I hope to finish!

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derwen1959

12-02-2019 17:42:33




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 Re: Fordson Dexta Has Diesel in the Oil Pan!!!!!! in reply to Shep1, 12-01-2019 18:13:37  
Ok. I should have read all. Comments
First has the thermostat been removed from cooling system as the symptoms do suggest engine is running too cold also have you cleaned air filter and
Not just cleaned mesh and renewed oil but clean pre cleaner on top and pipe down middle also
Is the breather pipe on rocker cover clear??



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Shep1

12-02-2019 08:56:54




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 Re: Fordson Dexta Has Diesel in the Oil Pan!!!!!! in reply to Shep1, 12-01-2019 18:13:37  
Thanks Majorman and yes it does have this feature. So, I will either cap it off or construct a shutoff valve on it.

Any idea how often these pump seal go bad? I have searched and searched but can't find any forum that someone has had this particular issue. I'm hoping the glow plug arrangement will give me some relief.

thanks!

Shep



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Deutz Lover

12-02-2019 07:34:24




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 Re: Fordson Dexta Has Diesel in the Oil Pan!!!!!! in reply to Shep1, 12-01-2019 18:13:37  
Shep1 reported earlier that he has checked the new lift pump and there are not leaks from the diaphragm.



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derwen1959

12-02-2019 06:58:45




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 Re: Fordson Dexta Has Diesel in the Oil Pan!!!!!! in reply to Shep1, 12-01-2019 18:13:37  
Have you checked lift pump for leaking diaphragm?



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Deutz Lover

12-02-2019 05:08:23




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 Re: Fordson Dexta Has Diesel in the Oil Pan!!!!!! in reply to Shep1, 12-01-2019 18:13:37  
Majorman,

I must have been receiving you thought transmissions last night.

I was thinking that this was the only remaining possible source of diesel fuel getting into the engine. Is it possible that that there is something wrong with this primer button so that engine vacuum can draw unwanted diesel into the intake manifold?



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Majorman

12-02-2019 09:13:14




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 Re: Fordson Dexta Has Diesel in the Oil Pan!!!!!! in reply to Deutz Lover, 12-02-2019 05:08:23  
Yes, in models after July 1963 a tap was fitted as standard on the manifold. I have come up against a similar problem two or three times but in those cases the engine "hydrauliced" when trying to start. We fitted a lot of taps after that.



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Majorman

12-02-2019 01:22:28




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 Re: Fordson Dexta Has Diesel in the Oil Pan!!!!!! in reply to Shep1, 12-01-2019 18:13:37  
Has your tractor got a pre heater in the manifold with a pipe going to the fuel tap? If so, put a small on/off tap in this line and only use it when you use the heater to start on a cold morning. This was the Fordson answer and was fitted as standard to all later build tractors. The engine draws the extra diesel into it through this pipe.

The only place diesel can get into the engine on a Dexta is the injection pump seal or the heater/cold start pipe. Leak off pipes are external.

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Deutz Lover

12-01-2019 19:15:08




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 Re: Fordson Dexta Has Diesel in the Oil Pan!!!!!! in reply to Shep1, 12-01-2019 18:13:37  
It is possible that the black wet coming out of the exhaust is diesel slobber. It happens when diesels idle too long or is a sign of worn rings. Look diesel slobber up. It is a valid term.



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Shep1

12-01-2019 18:49:38




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 Re: Fordson Dexta Has Diesel in the Oil Pan!!!!!! in reply to Shep1, 12-01-2019 18:13:37  
I put just a few gallons of "off-road diesel" in the tank a couple of days ago to take advantage of the dye used in it to possibly assist us with finding the pathway of fuel into the crankcase.

I had changed the oil , maybe 3 months ago, to the proper level so the almost 5 gallons of oil/diesel I drained had to have happened after I had a new oil change.

So, I left a drain bucket under the oil pan to watch for any dyed fuel to weep into the crankcase..so after 2 days of sitting there..no sign of any fuel into the bucket...

Ok, this makes me think that whatever leak there may be must be happening while the motor is running.
So, yes, I will buy some inexpensive 30 wt oil and give it a go after performing the other suggestions you have provided.

Will report back in a few days.

Thanks,

Shep

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Deutz Lover

12-01-2019 18:31:52




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 Re: Fordson Dexta Has Diesel in the Oil Pan!!!!!! in reply to Shep1, 12-01-2019 18:13:37  
Shep1
I forgot this where I finished up the original post. Before you do anything else fill the crankcase with the proper level of oil. It is a lot cheaper to replace than bearings and pistons. After you do this complete the list of other things I suggested.

Also if it had five gallons of oil/diesel this will cause blowby past the rings and can also blow a head gasket.



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Shep1

12-01-2019 18:29:40




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 Re: Fordson Dexta Has Diesel in the Oil Pan!!!!!! in reply to Shep1, 12-01-2019 18:13:37  
Here is the link to where this discussion got started but kinda got involved with the injector pump hijacking the thread..

https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?p=9229892#9229892

You guys on here a great and what a knowledge base for new owners of the great tractors...

Shep



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