1958 Ford Hydraulic lift problems

kensikora

Member
I have a 1958 Ford 861. The hydraulic arms will not lift.
What can my problem be?
1. Cam pin is o.k.
2. Cylinder wall very smooth.
3. Side control lever does not help.
4. Oil pushing out of the top of the pump - Not sure of the
pressure.
5. Hydraulic sump oil has been changed.

Any ideas for me? Thanks, Ken
 

One other thing, I noticed that the piston never leaves the far end of the cylinder. Today I am trying the screwdriver through the fill hole to move the linkage to see what happens. Any other ideas for me?
 
(quoted from post at 13:38:37 02/01/23)
One other thing, I noticed that the piston never leaves the far end of the cylinder. Today I am trying the screwdriver through the fill hole to move the linkage to see what happens. Any other ideas for me?
pressure measurement would be informative and could lead to a direction as to where to look.
 
Okay, First let's define what you mean by
#s 4 and 5.
There are three oil compartments on those.
Transmission, hyd oil and rear end.
Did you drain and refill all 3
compartments?
Next, did you split the tractor or have the
pump or hyd manifold off?
Did the lift work before you changed oil?
Could you have bumped the manifold on a
stump or rock?
Those piston pumps can be a real pia to
bleed.
They will pump, spit and spurt oil and air,
sometimes for a looong time before they
fully prime.
Connect a hose to a barb on the pump and
run the other end to the oil fill on the
hydraulic reservoir. Run the tractor for 15
minutes or if you can, take it for a spin
for an hour. Lift and lower the 3 point as
you go.
Then remove the hose and put the plug back
in.
 
follow dog's suggestion, using a clear hose & you can observe solid clear stream or air bubbles.
zR0USJY.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 12:43:27 02/01/23) Okay, First let's define what you mean by
#s 4 and 5.
There are three oil compartments on those.
Transmission, hyd oil and rear end.
Did you drain and refill all 3
compartments?
Next, did you split the tractor or have the
pump or hyd manifold off?
Did the lift work before you changed oil?
Could you have bumped the manifold on a
stump or rock?
Those piston pumps can be a real pia to
bleed.
They will pump, spit and spurt oil and air,
sometimes for a looong time before they
fully prime.
Connect a hose to a barb on the pump and
run the other end to the oil fill on the
hydraulic reservoir. Run the tractor for 15
minutes or if you can, take it for a spin
for an hour. Lift and lower the 3 point as
you go.
Then remove the hose and put the plug back
in.



Ford 861 Hydraulic lift problems:

1. With everything back together and the tractor running; I tried moving the linkages withy a heavy, long screwdriver thru the hydraulic oil fill opening, but nothing worked for me (?)

2.With the tractor running, I worked the selector lever, on the right of the lid, all the way down to the draft position and only then could I get any response from the touch lever, controlling the arms,---and only while I held the leger down. It doesn't lock and stay in that position (?) Should it ??

3. So from all that occurred: The hydraulic pump is O.K., the system did not need to be primed, there was no jerking motion in the arm movements and the arms did not gradually drop because of leaks around the piston.


4. Between the auxiliary connection plate on top of the hydraulic lid and the lid; I noticed no gasket. Should there be one??
 
Re, your item #2. Pushing the Draft/Position control lever down & having the system lift arms rise, strongly suggest that the linkage is not adjusted properly and/or linkage is bent, worn, etc.
I will attempt to explain why the DRAFT/POSITION lever makes it lift. The two pictures of Draft/Posn linkage show it in Position control with spring NOT compressed & the other show it in Draft mode with the spring compressed. As you move lever into DRAFT mode the arm labeled "L" is pulled such as to toggle the mechanism to the position shown in yellow, thus compressing the spring. That is all normal, but another thing that happens during this movement is that the whole assembly tries to rotate about the pivot where the tag is attached. Once the toggle is completed/spring compressed, this latter "whole assy" rotation is relaxed. But before it is relaxed, this rotation (red arc arrow) pushes the draft mechanism to the left which moves the control arm toward the lift position. Now the control valve is moved to Lift position and you have lift.
Disclaimer: This drawing is for the 8N Ford, but it serves to explain what is happening with you tractor, as much is the same.
v6NRrEX.jpg

TTQRv9r.jpg

VHFoPFA.jpg
 
Ken - I notice in one of your previous posting that the draft lever is not quite horizontal. Can you see if there is a detent
that you need to get past to pull it up all the way? I have seen some tractors where the lever is a bit stiff, but still works
correctly.

This post was edited by Steve in IL on 02/02/2023 at 09:44 pm.
 
(quoted from post at 10:30:12 02/02/23) Re, your item #2. Pushing the Draft/Position control lever down & having the system lift arms rise, strongly suggest that the linkage is not adjusted properly and/or linkage is bent, worn, etc.
I will attempt to explain why the DRAFT/POSITION lever makes it lift. The two pictures of Draft/Posn linkage show it in Position control with spring NOT compressed & the other show it in Draft mode with the spring compressed. As you move lever into DRAFT mode the arm labeled "L" is pulled such as to toggle the mechanism to the position shown in yellow, thus compressing the spring. That is all normal, but another thing that happens during this movement is that the whole assembly tries to rotate about the pivot where the tag is attached. Once the toggle is completed/spring compressed, this latter "whole assy" rotation is relaxed. But before it is relaxed, this rotation (red arc arrow) pushes the draft mechanism to the left which moves the control arm toward the lift position. Now the control valve is moved to Lift position and you have lift.
Disclaimer: This drawing is for the 8N Ford, but it serves to explain what is happening with you tractor, as much is the same.
v6NRrEX.jpg

TTQRv9r.jpg

VHFoPFA.jpg
mvphoto102075.jpg


mvphoto102076.jpg



In the picture, the linkage connections are outside of the lid opening. I assume that it should be bent to the left? Hopefully the parts are not cast iron and liable to break(???)
Please reply as soon as possible?
 
I can't tell much by the angle of picture and these two are also not too good an angle.
7mf5mk7.jpg

5Q8wxVD.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 12:35:37 02/03/23) I can't tell much by the angle of picture and these two are also not too good an angle.
7mf5mk7.jpg

5Q8wxVD.jpg

Picture is taken straight forward. Shall I take another?
 
Another check might be whether or not the cam follower is in position on the cam? Where it is bent might determine that, however.
ZrB5eFI.jpg

s3gMvcL.jpg


This post was edited by JMOR on 02/03/2023 at 02:26 pm.
 
In one of your pictures, you have your letter "T" and above the T is a pin sticking up. I had an accident and broke the pin off. So I bonded the pin back in and I do not know exactly what the pin does. Hopefully, that will work???

When I hold the draft control lever down and work the touch control lever; then I get the arms raising and lowering. Should I have to hold the draft control lever down? Shouldn't it lock in place?
 
(quoted from post at 20:14:12 02/07/23) In one of your pictures, you have your letter "T" and above the T is a pin sticking up. I had an accident and broke the pin off. So I bonded the pin back in and I do not know exactly what the pin does. Hopefully, that will work???

When I hold the draft control lever down and work the touch control lever; then I get the arms raising and lowering. Should I have to hold the draft control lever down? Shouldn't it lock in place?
in is a guide to keep the plate from rotating out of position. Once the toggle (the plate in question) combined with the part that rotates against the plate, compressing the spring, I do believe the Draft position is set & held. If you are pushing Draft lever further than that, there is no point in it once the mechanism toggles..Still sounds like adjustments are not right.
 
(quoted from post at 18:53:43 02/07/23)
(quoted from post at 20:14:12 02/07/23) In one of your pictures, you have your letter "T" and above the T is a pin sticking up. I had an accident and broke the pin off. So I bonded the pin back in and I do not know exactly what the pin does. Hopefully, that will work???

When I hold the draft control lever down and work the touch control lever; then I get the arms raising and lowering. Should I have to hold the draft control lever down? Shouldn't it lock in place?
in is a guide to keep the plate from rotating out of position. Once the toggle (the plate in question) combined with the part that rotates against the plate, compressing the spring, I do believe the Draft position is set & held. If you are pushing Draft lever further than that, there is no point in it once the mechanism toggles..Still sounds like adjustments are not right.

What adjustments do I make now?
 
I would try lengthening the turnbuckle between the control valve spool and the control arm. This diagram shows where it needs to be for LIFT.
1eb4ulC.jpg
 

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