1964 ford 4000 no low gear

bumper1990 · Dec 22, 2015

Okay guys im new to this whole tractor thing and im going to have alot of questions but just to start it off i have a 1964 ford 4000 industrial 172 gas with a backhoe and front loader. I have it running so so after rebuilding the carb my uncle gave it to me after sitting for 5 years in a field (amazed it started). I have 1st 3rd and reverse second gear just grinds also the lever for hi and low moves but will not go into low gear so as soon as i go to go up any hills it dies out quick. My question is what could the reason be it wont go into low gear? also is the 4000 industrial able to have a 3point hitch put on?

Sean in PA · Dec 22, 2015

(quoted from post at 12:58:19 12/22/15) Okay guys im new to this whole tractor thing and im going to have alot of questions but just to start it off i have a 1964 ford 4000 industrial 172 gas with a backhoe and front loader. I have it running so so after rebuilding the carb my uncle gave it to me after sitting for 5 years in a field (amazed it started). I have 1st 3rd and reverse second gear just grinds also the lever for hi and low moves but will not go into low gear so as soon as i go to go up any hills it dies out quick. My question is what could the reason be it wont go into low gear? also is the 4000 industrial able to have a 3point hitch put on?

I assume that this is a 4 speed with a Sherman auxiliary transmission. You say that it goes into 1st, 3rd and reverse and it grinds trying to go into 2nd. What about 4th?

Also, the Sherman should be a combo, with step-up (high), step-down (low) and pass through (stock) gearing. When you have the "hi/low" handle halfway between hi and low, in the neutral position, pull it straight sideways to the left, away from the center of the tractor, and then it should go rearward I believe (might be forward, haven't played with one in a while) and that should be the stock gearing for the 4 speed. Maybe it's already pulled out and what you think is hi is actually the stock gearing. Try pushing the handle in to the right as you move it forward and rearward to see if it will move in that direction.

If it doesn't have a 3 point hitch then you can add one, but it would require adding the pump that mounts on the side of the engine, plus the entire hydraulic top cover with the control valve, lift cylinder and upper lift arms, plus the lift linkage and lower arms, plus a number of other small odds and ends. Once you've bought and installed all of the you'll find out if the tubes passing through the transmission from the pump to the hydraulics sump have rusted out over the years from any water sitting in the bottom of the transmission sump.

bumper1990 · Dec 22, 2015

i will have to look when i get home how much does it pull in or out? i know when i pull it back it goes to neutral and if i pull again it just grinds and i never tried fourth gear i just use it around the property i rarely take it out of first gear i want to figure all this out so i can get it running good so correct me if im wrong but there is technically 3 sets of gearing then hi/lo/standard?

Sean in PA · Dec 22, 2015

Yes, there should be 3 sets of gearing. Sherman made a number of different auxiliary transmissions for Ford tractors over the years, step-up only, step-down only, combo and reverser, but by the time that the 4 cylinder thousand series was being made the only ones available were the "combo" with step-up, step-down and pass through, and the reverser trans which would give you either 4 forward and 1 reverse gear or 4 reverse gears and 1 forward gear on the main shifter depending on which position the aux trans handle was in.

If the aux trans shifter grinds when pulling it back from hi past neutral, then there's something wrong with the shifting mechanism or the gears inside. When it is in the neutral position, try pulling it straight out to the left and then try pulling it back, and if it goes into gear then that is the standard gearing that the 4 speed transmission has without the auxiliary trans making any change to the input speed of the transmission. The auxiliary transmission sits inside the bell housing of the transmission case, so you will need to split the tractor between the engine and transmission to fix whatever is causing the grinding when shifting into low. Here's a link to a "how-to" for fixing the Sherman combo transmission:

Rebuilding a Sherman Combo Transmission

bumper1990 · Dec 22, 2015

what part of pa are you from sean? and my next question is what is the little lever under the seat for?

Royse · Dec 22, 2015

There could be several little levers under the seat.
Can you post a picture of what you're referring to?
Normally I would guess it were draft/position control for the
3 pt hitch, but if you don't have 3 pt hitch, maybe not.

bumper1990 · Dec 22, 2015

I will as soon as I figure out how to ill
post a pic its just a little one to the
left of the seat

Royse · Dec 22, 2015

Left of the seat when seated? In a round bolt on cover by your heel?
That would make me think it is the PTO on/off lever.
Assuming you have PTO. I'm not sure if all the industrials did.

bumper1990 · Dec 22, 2015

Yup that is the one my PTO it fastened to my backhoe right now and my shifter plate only has 1,2,3 and reverse the other lever did pull out and go down next thing is the carb I rebuilt it ran finenow its being finicky is there a standard setting for this carb?

Royse · Dec 22, 2015

To help with the carb I'd need to know more about what you have.
I don't think there was a 3 speed transmission available for the '64 4000.
Reverse on the 4 speed was all the way left and up.
1st and third all the way to the right.
2nd and fourth in the middle. At least that's how I remember it.
Its always possible that there is one I don't know about.

To upload a pic, under advanced posting tools click "upload photo",
browse for your picture, click upload, then once you see it in the
little preview box click the continue button.

bumper1990 · Dec 22, 2015

It's a Marvell scheiber carb also since we're making good progress with my questions is there a way to cut power to the front hydraulic pump if I would take off the front loader the only way it fits in my shed is to take that and the backhoe off

bumper1990 · Dec 22, 2015

this is the lever let me know if the picture uploaded ok

bumper1990 · Dec 22, 2015

this is the shifter the number is hard to see but each dot is a gear

bumper1990 · Dec 22, 2015

this is the whole tractor I have it half painted and I removed the hood to work on it easier and to paint that as well

Royse · Dec 22, 2015

Yep, picture posted fine. That's the PTO on/off lever.
Ground movement must be stopped and the clutch depressed
to change it if the engine is running.

Larry NCKS · Dec 22, 2015

(quoted from post at 20:34:39 12/22/15) this is the shifter the number is hard to see but each dot is a gear

I can see the 4 on it in the picture even. What makes you think it's a 3 speed?

Royse · Dec 22, 2015

Kind of hard to see, but here are your gear markings.
The four actually show up Ok.

bumper1990 · Dec 22, 2015

Ok I do see it I always just saw the 1 with
the bump and the R with the bump and
figured it was a 3 speed wow I feel like a
squid haha well in that case then I have
1st 2nd and reverse I can't get into third
or fourth

Hobo,NC · Dec 22, 2015

Second gear is the most used gear and the weak link in the trans...
My guess is its shucked the teeth off the cluster gear... Pop the shift cover for a look you may bet lucky and find something else...

Not your tractor but pert-near the same trans...

http://www.oldfordtractors.com/2gears.htm

All I have ever seen also knocked a few teeth off 2nd gear on the main (top) shaft...

bumper1990 · Dec 22, 2015

Ok will do I'll pop the cover and get pics
if I can if what you said is what's wrong
is it an expensive or hard fix?

Hobo,NC · Dec 22, 2015

In the link look at the 5th pix upper right looks like a spring it is a spring with a 3/8 steel ball under it. remove the cover slowly and make sure the spring does not fall into the trans. Once the cover is off remove the spring making sure the steel ball does not stick to the spring and fall into the trans... The spring and ball is the detent for 1-3 shift rail... Other than that take the battery cable off so the starter push button does not ground out the starter solenoid..

Expensive depends on what parts you will need... Hard to do know but time consuming... If it was brought to me I would not touch it unless you OK $1500 more with the loader AND HOE ON IT...

I think I read it has a Sherman I consider that part of the trans it would need to come apart also I can not put a price on that... A good Sherman will fetch good money but is worth no more than a cheap boat anchor if its broke...

Royse · Dec 22, 2015

(quoted from post at 22:31:34 12/22/15) Ok will do I'll pop the cover and get pics
if I can if what you said is what's wrong
is it an expensive or hard fix?

Make sure of what you have before you leap.
If you have second, then you have second.
Which gears actually work and which ones do not?
Here's a picture of one of my tops to help identify.
You can't see reverse, but the others should be evident.

bumper1990 · Dec 23, 2015

Not that's alot shinier than mine haha im
sure I have reverse second and first but
when I got it I only had reverse and 2nd
but from running it now I have first as
well could the other ones maybe just be
stuck from sitting?

Sean in PA · Dec 23, 2015

As to your question about removing the loader and backhoe and leaving the front hydraulic pump on the tractor. The sump for the front pump hydraulics is most likely in the loader frame itself, and you don't want to run that pump without any fluid, so it depends on whether you plan on just removing the loader arms, or the entire thing including the frame.

If you are removing the whole thing including the frame then I would recommend going to tractor supply or Northern tools and getting a small hydraulic reservoir tank, like for a log splitter, and making a mounting bracket for it to mount it on the tractor somehow so that you can hook a suction and return line between it and the pump when the loader's not on the tractor. Or else remove the pump as well.

If you plan on removing the loader a lot then consider new hydraulic lines with quick disconnects so the swap over will be less painful.

Also, it is likely set up with power beyond between the loader and backhoe, so if you just remove the backhoe at any point and leave the loader on the tractor you will need to loop the proper lines to keep the loader working and the fluid returning to the sump.

Royse · Dec 23, 2015

Could be stuck from setting and/or rusted.

bumper1990 · Dec 23, 2015

ok let me ask this then is it worth ripping apart to fix? im not looking to resell it i have 5.5 acres i want to clear out rocks, stumps, and stuff like that. I would like it to run nice and look nice though (not show room or anything) ive noticed they are not a huge money tractor but i do like it its easy to work on and i couldnt buy a new one for what it would probably cost me to fix this one up. So should i just focus on it running for now then worry about the tranny later? since i do have three gears now? It seems like the tranny is the most expensive and involved project. Basically what are your opinions what should i start on and focus on first? i put new points,cap,rotor, wires,plugs, rebuilt the carb, and radiator im just kind of at a wall here i dont know whether to just focus on the motor then hope the trannys lasts awhile or maybe those two gears loosen up(ive learned trannys usually dont fix themselves you loose a gear or two the others tend to follow) maybe im wrong i dont know? Oh and early i meant to say wow thats alot shinier than mine auto correct turned it to not i hope i didnt offend

bumper1990 · Dec 23, 2015

i dont want to take off the loader for good but it will fit in my shed better without the loader on it and would be easier to work on instead of around but like you said i dont want to burn up the pump up front either can i just remove the pulley that turns the pump?

Royse · Dec 23, 2015

Nah, no offense taken. You get used to typos and auto-correct
so I read it exactly the way you meant it. I had just painted
that tractor, didn't even have all the seals back on yet.

I'm a bit OCD when it comes to things not working right, so
I would want to fix it. That's just me though, its your tractor.
Second and reverse may have been the only gears used for
loader work so the others may have been that way for a long
time. Hard to say.

If your front pump is like mine, its shaft driven off the front of
the engine. Some are left handed threads to screw the shaft in
but mine and many others are just a splined shaft that slips in.
You unbolt the pump from its mounting bracket and slide it and
the shaft out to remove it. You have to deal with all the hoses
of course.

If you just want to remove the loader arms, one pin at the top
rear of each arm, one at the front of the lift cylinders and two
hoses where the tilt cylinders hook to the control valve.
If you're lucky someone has already put quick disconnect
fittings on those two hoses just for this purpose.

You can hang the arms from a tree limb with a chain fall or
similar until you get them loose and back out from under them.
Mine's an older unit and I have to do this first to remove the
loader frame anyway so I added those quick disconnects.

bumper1990 · Dec 23, 2015

thats how i am as well if im gonna fix it fix it right but i know from restoring vehicles it sometimes becomes never ending haha it becomes a never ending hole ya keep nit picking finding stuff to work on i guess thats why they call it a hobby so i do want to fix it and fix it right have something to be proud of im just trying to figure out where to start you guys have been awesome and very helpful i learned more about it the past two days then i knew the past couple months i knew it would be a project when i got it but it was in my price range haha so back to the carb what should i set that at for a good starting point? its the marvel schebler tsx 813

Sean in PA · Dec 23, 2015

(quoted from post at 12:31:20 12/23/15)

i dont want to take off the loader for good but it will fit in my shed better without the loader on it and would be easier to work on instead of around but like you said i dont want to burn up the pump up front either can i just remove the pulley that turns the pump?

The pump is driven by a shaft that in turn is driven by the crankshaft pulley that also drives the fan/water pump and generator (or alternator if it has been converted), so removing the pulley is not really an option, but disconnecting the driveshaft from the pulley might be, but it would depend on if there's enough room to remove the bolts holding the drive hub to the pulley and slide the driveshaft and hub far enough forward and tie it in place somehow so that it wouldn't move around and wouldn't interfere with the pulley and belt. If it won't slide far enough on its own then you would have to remove the bolts holding the pump in place to slide it any farther, so at that point you might as well remove the pump.

Royse · Dec 23, 2015

I usually start with the main needle at 1 1/2 turns out from the
bottom and the idle air needle about 1/4 turn off the bottom.
That will at least get it to run. Once its running let it warm up
to normal operating temperature, 15 minutes or so usually.
Then adjust the carb while its running and warm.

The idle air screw turns in to enrich, out adds more air.
Adjust it for proper idle at around 500 RPM or less.

Adjust the main jet so you can get full speed operation, then
turn it in until you hear the engine bog a little, then turn it out
about an eighth of a turn or so.

Then check your idle again, it may need to be readjusted.
You might have to do that routine several times to get it just right.

Once you're happy with the way it runs setting still, take it out
for a ride and put it under some load. Fine tuning can be done
under load better than setting still.

Royse · Dec 23, 2015

(quoted from post at 15:08:17 12/23/15)

(quoted from post at 12:31:20 12/23/15)

i dont want to take off the loader for good but it will fit in my shed better without the loader on it and would be easier to work on instead of around but like you said i dont want to burn up the pump up front either can i just remove the pulley that turns the pump?

Click to expand...

The pump is driven by a shaft that in turn is driven by the crankshaft pulley that also drives the fan/water pump and generator (or alternator if it has been converted), so removing the pulley is not really an option, but disconnecting the driveshaft from the pulley might be, but it would depend on if there's enough room to remove the bolts holding the drive hub to the pulley and slide the driveshaft and hub far enough forward and tie it in place somehow so that it wouldn't move around and wouldn't interfere with the pulley and belt. If it won't slide far enough on its own then you would have to remove the bolts holding the pump in place to slide it any farther, so at that point you might as well remove the pump.

He could take the pump off, remove the driveshaft and put the pump back on without the driveshaft.
Put the shaft "right over there were you'll know where it is". Never fails to get lost that way! :roll:

Ultradog MN · Dec 24, 2015

So,
Does that make your tractor a no low contender?

bumper1990 · Dec 24, 2015

Nope I was working on her today his the current situation I only have low gear and standard I believe the hilow lever won't engage if I pull it straight back idk if that it Hi or low but I don't have the gearing next I was wrong I have 2nd and 4th it won't even try to go into 1st or third it almost is like its blocked off as for running fired up seems to run smoother but the govener doesn't seem to be working right once its under load it won't automatically kick up maybe it's not suppose to I don't know I'm ready for input

Royse · Dec 24, 2015

"I was wrong I have 2nd and 4th"

That's why I was asking you to make sure.
1st and third can be blocked out by a broken spring.
Mine were in the picture below. Although that was an 8N 4 speed.
1st and 3rd also use the same shift rail with a detent ball and
spring that can be rusted up and fairly easily fixed.

This is the bottom side of the shift cover.
The broken spring dropped down and wouldn't let it move all the
way over to go into 1st or third. (where it is in the picture)
2nd and 4th are in the middle so it worked fine there.

bumper1990 · Dec 24, 2015

Ok so what do I start with? Take the big
cover off and just have a look? And what's
your take on the Hi lo lever grinding?

Royse · Dec 24, 2015

You can take the cover off and look, won't hurt anything.
Put it in neutral, unbolt it and lift it off.

You will need a new gasket though. I have a ton of them!
Shoot me an email and I'll send you one for the cost of shipping.

Disconnect the battery first so it doesn't try to roll over if you
ground the wire going to the starter button mounted on top of it.

Watch out for the spring that holds the detent ball down.
It won't fly out of there, but it might get stuck to the bottom of
the cover and fall into the transmission if you're not watching.
Picture of where it is circled below.
The spring itself is shown in the fifth picture down on John Smith's
site at here. Upper right corner of the picture.

The Sherman not shifting/grinding is a separate problem.
I'm not sure I have enough information to help on that one.
What does your Sherman shift handle look like?

I'm having a hard time understanding why you can shift it into
two of the three ranges but not the third range assuming you
are shifting it the same way. Clutch in, tractor stopped, etc.

bumper1990 · Dec 27, 2015

Thank you I'd greatly appreciate that and
yup I'm stopped clutch in and will not go
into the (I'm thinking low) range but
tomorrow I am going to pop that cover off
and have a look I'll post pictures then

Sean in PA · Dec 27, 2015

The transmission top cover will only get you to the main transmission shifter. To get to the Sherman auxiliary trans I believe you need to split the tractor between the engine and the transmission case.

bumper1990 · Dec 27, 2015

Yea I believe so so I am letting that alone
for now and just going to focus on getting
1st and 3rd if I can then go from there is
there a way to free up the detent ball and
spring if its rusty or am I better off
replaceing it?

JerryS · Dec 30, 2015

Jerry, Jerry, Jerry.......tsk.

PlowboyJim · Jan 22, 2023

Since we're all talking about Ford Tractor transmissions with High/Low option, would anyone on here be kind enough to Identify this transmission setup for me?
Thanks In advance.

Sean in PA · Jan 22, 2023

This is an 8 year old thread so you probably won't get a lot of responses, as most folks on here use the Classic View which does not bring old posts back to the top of the list when someone posts to it.

I answered your question over on My Tractor Forum already. Here is what I posted over there:

That is what is called an 8 speed manual transmission, sometimes referred to as the 8x2 transmission. It has 4 forward gears and 1 reverse gear on the taller main shifter, and the shorter shifter switches between high and low range for a total of 8 forward and 2 reverse gears. It looks like the neutral safety switch has been bypassed. There should be a pair of wires coming from under the dash down to the transmission top cover, and the switch inside will only allow the starter to turn if the range shifter is in the neutral position, halfway between high and low.

1964 ford 4000 no low gear

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