Ford NAA engine oil pump

barnerr

New User
I have an NAA that the engine was seized on. I took it apart, freed up the cylinders, replaced all the rings and it turns over good. I did have to drop the pickup for the oil pump in order to access the 2nd and 3rd connecting rods. I put it all back together, put in new oil and filter. I decided to make sure I was pushing oil throughout the engine before I tried to start the engine. I took out the distributor and used a drill to turn the oil pump slot clockwise. At this point all it does is gurgle and no oil is moving that I can see. What is the problem?
 
(quoted from post at 15:49:19 01/12/23) I have an NAA that the engine was seized on. I took it apart, freed up the cylinders, replaced all the rings and it turns over good. I did have to drop the pickup for the oil pump in order to access the 2nd and 3rd connecting rods. I put it all back together, put in new oil and filter. I decided to make sure I was pushing oil throughout the engine before I tried to start the engine. I took out the distributor and used a drill to turn the oil pump slot clockwise. At this point all it does is gurgle and no oil is moving that I can see. What is the problem?
ay be sucking air....verify fittings/gaskets/etc.
 
How far is the engine reassembled? If you're looking for oil to come out at the
rocker arms, the camshaft has to be in just the right location of rotation for oil
to get to the top. If you look at the camshaft in the cutaway picture you will see
what I mean. These engines were designed to just send up spurts of oil to the
valves.
cvphoto144856.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 00:18:12 01/13/23) How far is the engine reassembled? If you're looking for oil to come out at the
rocker arms, the camshaft has to be in just the right location of rotation for oil
to get to the top. If you look at the camshaft in the cutaway picture you will see
what I mean. These engines were designed to just send up spurts of oil to the
valves.
<img src=https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto144856.jpg>

The engine is all reassembled except for the top and side covers so that I can see the oil flowing. I rebuilt a '58 641 several years and did the same maneuver with the oil pump. The oil flowed steady through the rocker arms and no gurgling from the oil pump. I didn't have to do anything extra to get the pump to pump oil, with that one. Could it be something wrong with the pump pressure relief valve or the new oil filter?
 
I rebuilt a '58 641 several years and did the same maneuver with the oil pump. The oil flowed steady through the rocker arms and no gurgling from the oil pump.

Then you got lucky that previous time and the cam shaft was in the proper rotational position to allow oil to flow up to the rockers when you applied the drill. As others have said, the oil does not flow up to the rockers 100% of the time when the engine is running, only a small fraction of the time, each time that the cam shaft rotates to that one position where the holes line up.
 
(quoted from post at 16:30:54 01/13/23)
I rebuilt a '58 641 several years and did the same maneuver with the oil pump. The oil flowed steady through the rocker arms and no gurgling from the oil pump.

Then you got lucky that previous time and the cam shaft was in the proper rotational position to allow oil to flow up to the rockers when you applied the drill. As others have said, the oil does not flow up to the rockers 100% of the time when the engine is running, only a small fraction of the time, each time that the cam shaft rotates to that one position where the holes line up.

OK, I can accept that. Shouldn't I see some pressure on the gage, though. Shouldn't I see oil coming up through the bottom of the push rods?
 
(quoted from post at 11:53:30 01/13/23)
(quoted from post at 16:30:54 01/13/23)
I rebuilt a '58 641 several years and did the same maneuver with the oil pump. The oil flowed steady through the rocker arms and no gurgling from the oil pump.

Then you got lucky that previous time and the cam shaft was in the proper rotational position to allow oil to flow up to the rockers when you applied the drill. As others have said, the oil does not flow up to the rockers 100% of the time when the engine is running, only a small fraction of the time, each time that the cam shaft rotates to that one position where the holes line up.

OK, I can accept that. Shouldn't I see some pressure on the gage, though. Shouldn't I see oil coming up through the bottom of the push rods?
f spinning fast enough to generate pressure & no air leaks, you might see a gauge reading, but no to the pushrod question. Greg NE has really given you the answer.

LOOK at Greg's drawing......first place oil goes in leaving the pump is oil filter (pretty direct), so cut to the chase , remove the filter, run drill/pump and see if oil comes out. Pretty quick & simple, huh?

This post was edited by JMOR on 01/13/2023 at 10:02 am.
 
"Shouldn't I see oil coming up through the bottom of the push rods?"

No - the tappets/ push rods are splash lubricated. Unless the camshaft is in the right position there is no oil to the upper engine.

But... "an NAA that the engine was seized..." a seized engine indicates a lubrication problem. What did the bearings look like? Did you rebuild/inspect the pump when refreshing the engine? They are not commonly a problem, but in this case if you can't certify oil pressure I'd be suspicious of the pump.
 
(quoted from post at 18:23:28 01/13/23) "Shouldn't I see oil coming up through the bottom of the push rods?"

No - the tappets/ push rods are splash lubricated. Unless the camshaft is in the right position there is no oil to the upper engine.

But... "an NAA that the engine was seized..." a seized engine indicates a lubrication problem. What did the bearings look like? Did you rebuild/inspect the pump when refreshing the engine? They are not commonly a problem, but in this case if you can't certify oil pressure I'd be suspicious of the pump.

It sat for a couple of years and apparently water/moisture got into 1 or 2 cylinders so that it seized. The rings were froze on all those pistons. The bearings looked perfect. I think it was getting oil when it ran. So can you tell me what the right position the camshaft needs to be in for me to get oil to the top?
 
(quoted from post at 14:13:00 01/13/23)
(quoted from post at 18:23:28 01/13/23) "Shouldn't I see oil coming up through the bottom of the push rods?"

No - the tappets/ push rods are splash lubricated. Unless the camshaft is in the right position there is no oil to the upper engine.

But... "an NAA that the engine was seized..." a seized engine indicates a lubrication problem. What did the bearings look like? Did you rebuild/inspect the pump when refreshing the engine? They are not commonly a problem, but in this case if you can't certify oil pressure I'd be suspicious of the pump.

It sat for a couple of years and apparently water/moisture got into 1 or 2 cylinders so that it seized. The rings were froze on all those pistons. The bearings looked perfect. I think it was getting oil when it ran. So can you tell me what the right position the camshaft needs to be in for me to get oil to the top?
ell, it is clearly where the two holes to the "L" passage in the cam align with the two holes in the journal/block. Now, how you find that spot in a fully assembled engine is a whole 'nother matter. Remove the oil filter & be done with the mystery.
 
So can you tell me what the right position the camshaft needs to be in for me to get oil to the top?

You could try turning the engine slowly by hand while running the oil pump with the drill until oil starts to come out up at the rockers, but you still don't know if the pump is pumping oil, so I would suggest pulling the oil filter first, as JMOR has suggested, just to make sure oil is getting that far.
 
The picture can be a little confusing as it looks like the oil is travelling up
the push rods like a lot of car engines back in the day. The oil travels up to the
head via the oil tube that has the special rubber seal at the bottom and mounts to
the rocker arm shaft/tube.
 
Interesting!
On my complete rebuilt 134 I first tried pre lubing with drill motor & common bit, but oil splashed all over the place. Had to get a crutch rubber tip and drill a hole for the drill bit, then ran the drill motor with the crutch tip pushed in the Dist. hole. Oil press Gauge came up to 40 Lbs.
Then I had my helper manually rotate the engine with home made crank while I ran the oil pump some more.
I'm wondering how you didn't have oil all over the block with just the distributor out ?
 

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top