1963 4140 HD Industrial - Which starter solenoid?

1963 ford 4140 HD Industrial 4-cylinder gas.

I'm still having issues with getting the correct starter solenoid or a valid wiring diagram for 12 volt system. I installed a solenoid from yesterday's tractor 311007FR which they said was correct. I replaced the starter switch, 1-wire alternator (it was bad), the starter, and ignition switch.

The starter switch still does nothing when the key is turned on but I can jump the solenoid to start it. The PO provided a wiring diagram but I don't think it's correct, it uses the s terminal for the starter switch when it was actually connected to the i terminal. I'll attach it below for review.

I've owned it since July 2022.

If someone can tell me the correct starter solenoid part number and a wiring diagram for the series 4000 4-cylinder gas 58'-64' 12v conversion or equivalent tractor I would be very grateful.

Thank you

Here is a photo of the starter solenoid of my tractor as I received it. I cleaned up the wiring but this is how it ran since July until one morning I went outside and the tractor was trying to start itself without the key (it was on the seat) and in neutral. I had to disconnect the battery ground.

WOW! I cringe whenver I see rat's nest of wiring. The solenoid you have is correct if that is what they sent you. STEINERS has them if not. It is NOT your problem. Your wiring is mucked up. How did you determine those parts were bad? Guessing is not a logical problem solving method. The starter motor will operate on 6V or 12V. First, take battery to a starter shop and have tested under load. You could take the starter motor too and get it tested too. Both tests are usually at no charge (pun intended). If GEN or ALT has no fan belt tensioner attached, it will never charge the battery. Don't be jumping anythng if you don't know the proper procedure and then only a last resort. Go thru entire wiring system verifying wires are correct and use continuity not an idiot test light, and don't use color codes. You might want to consider a new wiring harness too. Diagram shown seems to be correct but maybe Sean or Ultradog can confirm as I do not have access to my manauals at this time.


Tim Daley(MI)

Know this::Be careful of the I mark on this style solenoid. I bought a 12v one that had the S and I by the two small terminals and internal circuit was in and out to solenoid, not the switched on for the I terminal. I think it was for older Western snow plow. Best to check with continuity tester.

That schematic does seem correct for a 4 post solenoid on that type of starter circuit as long as it is the correct type of solenoid (isolated primary).

Your initial symptom, everything working fine until it suddenly started turning the starter without the key in the ignition, points to a combination of issues, one being a bad key switch and the other being a short to ground from the second small post of the solenoid, either through a loose or worn wire that was touching ground or a starter safety switch that was shorting to ground when not being pushed. Or possibly the solenoid itself welded itself stuck on, but that usually happens when you try to start it, not when it is sitting not running with the key out. It is also possible that it wasn't wired according to that schematic that you posted and the first small post of the solenoid was always hot, so only the shorting to ground was the problem. Without proper troubleshooting and simply swapping out parts, you are now at a point where the original problem(s) still exists and you have introduced other unknowns.

I would put the original solenoid back in and leave both small posts disconnected from any wires and connect the large wires to the large posts. Does the starter turn at that point? If not, add a wire from the switched side of the terminal block to the first small post on the solenoid. Does the starter turn at that point? If no, try adding a wire to the second small post and touch the other end directly to ground and see if it turns the starter at that point. If it only turns the starter at that last test, then I would run a new wire from the second small post directly to the safety starter switch and see if it turns the starter with the button not being pushed. If not then it was a short to ground in that rats nest of wires that you have now bypassed. If at any point in the above testing, the starter turns when it is not supposed to, then you have found the point where something is not correct. Report back with that and we can give you further troubleshooting steps.

(quoted from post at 04:45:30 01/03/23) Know this::Be careful of the I mark on this style solenoid. I bought a 12v one that had the S and I by the two small terminals and internal circuit was in and out to solenoid, not the switched on for the I terminal. I think it was for older Western snow plow. Best to check with continuity tester.

Click to expand...

It seems like the solenoid manufacturers use the same case for a variety of configurations and the letters/markings by the two small terminals are not always applicable to what's inside.

Good advice Sean...

I hooked up the original starter solenoid and original circuit and now it starts properly with the starter switch. I knew it could be the starter switch, ignition switch, and possibly wiring that's why I replaced them and redid all the wiring with 14ga stranded and new marine connectors. The alternator was not charging the battery so I got a new one and replaced the 10ga wiring also. These parts cost me around $100.

The wiring diagram provided by the PO was not correct for my tractor solenoid. My tractor used i terminal for starter switch not the s terminal. It would not work connected to the s terminal.

Thanks again Sean

Lol, that was how it was received. I only posted that to show the i and s terminal connections with i terminal to the starter switch as opposed to the PO provided diagram.

I already replaced all the wiring with 14ga stranded this summer. This problem I determined that perhaps the starter switch was bad. My problem after that was getting the correct starter solenoid. It only cost a few dollars to get a new ignition switch and starter switch. I already had a new starter from this summer. It turns out that yesterday's tractor solenoid did not work even though they said it would.

Sean gave me GOOD advice, try the original solenoid. I did that and it fired right up with the new starter switch and ignition switch. That's all I was asking for... the schematic provided by the PO was incorrect in regard to the small terminal connections. I did a circuit diagram when I got the tractor and wired everything up properly. I never guess... it is a logical path to conclude that I had the incorrect replacement solenoid. I was right. However, the problem still exists that if I need to replace the starter solenoid, I still would not know the correct part number. Do you?

(quoted from post at 13:47:07 01/03/23) Good advice Sean...

I hooked up the original starter solenoid and original circuit and now it starts properly with the starter switch. I knew it could be the starter switch, ignition switch, and possibly wiring that's why I replaced them and redid all the wiring with 14ga stranded and new marine connectors. The alternator was not charging the battery so I got a new one and replaced the 10ga wiring also. These parts cost me around $100.

The wiring diagram provided by the PO was not correct for my tractor solenoid. My tractor used i terminal for starter switch not the s terminal. It would not work connected to the s terminal.

Thanks again Sean

Click to expand...

& I , on your solenoid are interchangeable.....reverse the two and it still functions the exactly the same.

Not on this solenoid, I put the original solenoid back in and it works with the i terminal attached to the starter switch but not connected to s. I tried other solenoids that were supposed to be correct and none worked in any configuration of the small terminals. Sean advised to put the original one back in and to my surprise it worked. I thought it had failed but it may have been the starter switch. I replaced both the starter switch and ignition switch but couldn't get the correct solenoid that would operate with the circuit the tractor came with. It came with the i terminal wired to the starter switch. Everything works now as it should or at least as it was! I still don't know a valid part number for a replacement if this one does eventually fail.

Thank you for your reply!

Check the new solenoid to see if there is continuity between the S and I terminals. Check for continuity between the S terminal and the mounting base. Let us know the results.

My guess is that the original solenoid isn't a true isolated primary, and one of the small posts is connected inside directly to the large post that is getting the power directly from the large battery cable, so when that small post is connected to the starter switch and you press the starter switch, the current goes from that large post through the internal connection in the solenoid to the small post going to the starter switch, and so no current actually flows through the primary coil and the solenoid does not get actuated, but when the small posts are reversed, current flows through the primary coil and actuates the solenoid. If my theory is correct, then it should turn the starter when you press the start switch, even if the key switch is off. And that is why the starter was running after you parked it originally with the key switch off, because the small post on the solenoid was receiving power through the large post even when the key switch was off, and some wiring short to ground happened while it was parked.