dry sleeves on 640

Cpenn

Member
I had several issues installing new dry sleeves in my 640 (134 motor). Sleeves came in a kit with new pistons. I put them on dry ice for 24h, heated the block with oxy/ac (the occasional popping noise while heating the block was a bit un-nerving..), and put the sleeve in directly from the cooler to the block. I used sea foam lubricating/penetration oil to lube the sleeve. That might have been a mistake. Anyway, I had to pound the tar out of these things with a 2x4 on top, breaking a lot of boards before finally getting them in. I'm still doing countless measurements for out-of-round (0.003 tolerance) and taper (0.008 tolerance), but it seems to be in spec, although pounding on it so hard clearly had an effect. Placing the piston inside of the one that received the most pounding, the piston was very tight, lubed with the same sea-foam oil. I was thinking, oh no, big trouble. But then I lubed it with motor oil and it moved up in down in the sleeve no problem.

Do you think the sleeves went in so hard because I used the sea foam oil instead of motor oil to lube the outside sleeve upon installation? Is that going to be a problem if I have to take them out in 20 years?

If it turns out to be slightly out of spec for out-of-round or taper, should I use a hone to make it better, or just pull it out and start over with a new sleeve?

I am interested in any of your thoughts on this topic.
Thanks!
Chad
 
(quoted from post at 06:32:11 08/30/21) I had several issues installing new dry sleeves in my 640 (134 motor). Sleeves came in a kit with new pistons. I put them on dry ice for 24h, heated the block with oxy/ac (the occasional popping noise while heating the block was a bit un-nerving..), and put the sleeve in directly from the cooler to the block. I used sea foam lubricating/penetration oil to lube the sleeve. That might have been a mistake. Anyway, I had to pound the tar out of these things with a 2x4 on top, breaking a lot of boards before finally getting them in. I'm still doing countless measurements for out-of-round (0.003 tolerance) and taper (0.008 tolerance), but it seems to be in spec, although pounding on it so hard clearly had an effect. Placing the piston inside of the one that received the most pounding, the piston was very tight, lubed with the same sea-foam oil. I was thinking, oh no, big trouble. But then I lubed it with motor oil and it moved up in down in the sleeve no problem.

Do you think the sleeves went in so hard because I used the sea foam oil instead of motor oil to lube the outside sleeve upon installation? Is that going to be a problem if I have to take them out in 20 years?

If it turns out to be slightly out of spec for out-of-round or taper, should I use a hone to make it better, or just pull it out and start over with a new sleeve?

I am interested in any of your thoughts on this topic.
Thanks!
Chad

Chad,
I'm in the process of rebuilding/restoring an 861 with a 172 engine (same as yours but larger disp). I used the sleeve installing tool made for this to pull in the sleeves.
After I pulled in the sleeves, they closed up about .002". I then had to hone them for proper fit which is .0015" skirt clearance.
My biggest issue was that the sleeves were so hard, I wore out two sets of hone stones and spent days getting them opened up to the correct size.

If you sleeves are close, i'd leave them alone.

Otherwise my suggestion is to purchase a Hone (not a glaze breaker) to size the sleeve thats in there, because if you install another one you may be doing it to the new one anyway. Just be warned that you may have to do a lot of honing to get much off if they are as hard as mine were.
Rick
 
Thanks Rick. Did you use a hone like this: https://www.autozone.com/test-scan-and-specialty-tools/cylinder-hone-deglazer/p/oemtools-2in-to-7in-adjustable-engine-cylinder-hone-deglazer/532002_0_0?

And then use coarse stones for it?
Thanks
 
(quoted from post at 09:32:11 08/30/21)
heated the block with oxy/ac (the occasional popping noise while heating the block was a bit un-nerving..) ........
pound the tar out of these things with a 2x4 on top, breaking a lot of boards before finally getting them in......
pounding on it so hard clearly had an effect.......
the piston was very tight, lubed with the same sea-foam oil......

I am interested in any of your thoughts on this topic.
Chad

IMHO

You are at one of the most critical steps of an engine rebuild. Doesn't sound like you have the proper tools to do the job, and your methods are .... ummm, how can I say this ..... not what I would do.

My suggestion is to send the engine to the shop for magnufluxing and sleeve correction or re-installation. Have them recondition the connecting rods, install the pistons onto the rods and fit the pistons. Check / grind the crank and do a valve job while there.
These are critical steps that need to be done correctly, and without damage, to assure a successful rebuild.
Then complete the rebuild at home.
 
That is really just a glaze breaker. Meaning that it would be very difficult to remove enough material to correct an out of round or taper issue.
This is what I used: https://www.lislecorp.com/specialty-tools/engine-cylinder-hone

you can get it a alot better price than listed at Amazon. I started with 80 grit stones and worked up to finish with #280 stones. Like I said, I found the new sleeves to be very hard and really had to work at it.
 


I had a 172 from my 960 rebuilt and blueprinted at a high dollar shop. it had a sort of ringing noise. I finally removed the head and found that #1 sleeve was moving freely up and down slightly in the bore I put it back together with Permatex sleeve sealer. I have to wonder about the source of your sleeve kit.
 
So I obtained a telescopic gauge and micrometers. Turns out that I am within the out-of-round specs of 0.003. Easily within the 0.008 spec for taper. So I am going to skip the honing.

Thinking back, I'm considering how I heated the block with a torch inside the bore before I put the cold sleeve in. It did make a couple of pop noises while heating. I'm assuming that is normal due to expansion? Any thoughts on that?
Thanks
 
So I obtained a telescopic gauge and micrometers. Turns out that I am within the out-of-round specs of 0.003. Easily within the 0.008 spec for taper. So I am going to skip the honing.
Thinking back, I'm considering how I heated the block with a torch inside the bore before I put the cold sleeve in. It did make a couple of pop noises while heating. I'm assuming that is normal due to expansion? Any thoughts on that?
Thanks
 

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