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Tractor identification

B

Bobcat503

New User
Hello. First time posting and looking for information on a backhoe I just purchased. PO said he did replace the Diesel engine with a gas burner The numbers I have found are:
On left side transmission bell housing above starter- 4 120 1D. Below that; 17396.
On axle below seat; 3E22. Below that; CONN 4024F.
Numbers on bottom of gas engine are; EAE-6015-F. Below that is 3102:2

Numbers on loader tag:
19-131
4096. Last number almost looks like a b or reversed 9

Numbers on backhoe are:
190078
723 59

What I have found, it looks like a 1963 light industrial 4000. Gentleman I bought if from said it was a 801. I would like to get manuals for it but need a positive id to order correct ones. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
41201D is the model:

4 is 172 engine
1 is 1963 or later
20 is Four-wheel All-Purpose w/adjustable front axle
1 (for 1963 and later) is four-speed transmission with PTO
D is for diesel

17396 is a 1963 serial number

19-131 is a 712-Series loader

723 is a 723-Series backhoe

The question is do you have an adjustable front axle (agricultural)? An industrial version of the tractor should have a heavy-duty non-adjustable front axle.
 
As Andy said, those numbers stamped into the transmission indicate that it's a 1963 4000 ag chassis tractor with a diesel engine, but that only tells us what tractor that transmission was installed in when it left the factory. The transmission could have been transplanted from another tractor into the one that you've got and yours may have started life as a different model. The engines, transmissions and rear axles are pretty much interchangeable on all of the models from 1955 through 1964 with the exception of changes in spline counts on input and output shafts along the way. Post some pictures of the tractor, including front side and rear shots showing the grill, axles and steering setup and we can help figure out exactly what it is.

This post was edited by Sean in PA on 07/31/2021 at 11:48 am.
 
Yeah, need some pictures, 712 loader was
fitted to various industrial tractors, not
agricultural, so transmission is probably
a transplant.
 
Thank you all for the input. Ill try to upload some pictures. It has the 4 speed transmission in it. It does not have a PTO or 3 point hitch. It does have a heavy duty front end and is not adjustable that I can see.

cvphoto96115.png


cvphoto96116.png
 
It thankfully doe have power steering, although it is a little
loose. The back bucket does have excessive play, but it does
have some leaks Im starting to get chased down. The
loader drops fairly quick. But again the system has leaks
needing repaired. PO said the engine came off an old ford
generator. Runs good when I can keep all the crud out of the
carburetor. Thanks again for the time to help me identify the
tractor.
cvphoto96117.jpg


cvphoto96118.jpg


cvphoto96119.jpg
 
My guess is a 1963 4140 HD Industrial. HD progression was 1801 then 4040 HD the 4140 HD. The code on axle 3E22 looks like a 1963 date code. The 723 backhoe was normal for 4140 HD, earlier models more likely 713. Does the tractor have cable steering? If not, probably 4140 HD. To confirm search Internet and YT archives and compare to what you have. Sean, what do you think?
 
Started out in life as a Selecto Speed. I have a 801D that was that way then was changed to 4 speed when I got and I changed to 5 speed LPTO.
 
(quoted from post at 19:28:20 07/31/21) My guess is a 1963 4140 HD Industrial. HD progression was 1801 then 4040 HD the 4140 HD. The code on axle 3E22 looks like a 1963 date code. The 723 backhoe was normal for 4140 HD, earlier models more likely 713. Does the tractor have cable steering? If not, probably 4140 HD. To confirm search Internet and YT archives and compare to what you have. Sean, what do you think?
Click to expand...

I concur. It definitely looks like a 4140 to me. I see the control valve for the power steering on the column in one picture so it doesn't have the cable steering.
 
It's looks to have the cable steering, so it would either be a 1801 or 4040 that the transmission has been replaced. If it has one filter for the loader/backhoe then it would be a 1801, as the 4040 and 4140 had two. Not much difference between the 1801 and 4040, color change from Red/grey to Red/yellow. Other minor differences where changes to the power steering control ratio and the half steering wheel was no longer available but now it had a power steering cylinder protective shield, as well an improved PS pump reservoir filter. lastly a change to the PS pump belt adjustment was made but other then that and the decals it was the same tractor.
 
Thanks again. I dont have cable steering. Power steering pump is on the right side. It has a hydraulic steering control valve at the steering column above and back from where the battery goes. Hoses go to a ram on the axle. As far as I know it only has one hydraulic filter on the right side under the loader control valve. Under all the grime and peeling paint it looks to have been either primed bright red or was painted pretty much totally red.
 
Yes it does have the cutout for where the selecto-speed shifter used to be. Thats one of the things that threw me off track. From the little Ive drove it, it seems to be geared high. So manuals for a 1963 4140 HD tractor should set me on a correct path? Then manuals for a 712 loader and a 723 backhoe. Im beginning to think I bought a frankintractor!!! Needs some work. But it does run
 
Take a look at these as they will show the difference between the 1804,4040 and 4140 steering systems.

1801 https://www.messicks.com/nh/136501
4140 https://www.messicks.com/nh/138424

The picture is of a 4140 frame that I parted down years ago and shows the the steering signal pitman arm the 1801/4040 will not have this or the C0NN3131L Arm, Steering Spindle, L.H.;No Longer Serviced; (Prod Date) After 01-Jan-1963(ref #21 in the diagram).

cvphoto96167.jpg
.
 
Hello. I greatly appreciate the help. This is the steering on my tractor. I could not swear that they havent been changed. The first picture is of the bottom of the steering column. 2 lines coming into the valve and 2 going out. 2nd picture is of the ram on the axle. 3rd picture is on the right side and shows the two hoses going to the ram and the rod coming from the left side. I dont have the steering rod that goes back toward the seat on this one.
cvphoto96195.jpg


cvphoto96196.jpg


cvphoto96197.jpg
 
That is the full power cable steering that came on the 1801 and 4040, the power assist steering had that steering arm and came on the 4140. I have an 1841 that has the full power cable steering that works well, I don't used it since it is impossible to fix, and I am afraid of it breaking. I have another 1841 that has an aftermarket PS setup on it, not the best, but it works, it runs off the front loader pump. Have 2 4040, one has been changed out to the 4140 style the other will be. And lastly 1821 that someone put a boat steering on it, yea I don't know that they were thinking, it dont work not even for fishing. The problem with the 1801/4040 steering was the operator wanted to turn the steering wheel to far, here a video of an 1841 with the full power cable steering. Notice how he never turn the half steering wheel a full rotation.
FORD 1841
 
Ive never seen a half steering wheel on a small tractor. Ive ran them on JD and Cat loaders. Interesting! Well I hope a 4000 series shop manual works for the one I have. Found one on sale and its on its way. I also found one for the 134cid engine I did get it fired up and running, but need to replace the fuel pump. For what I need around the place it will work. Oh. It does have a nub where the pto lever would be. But no lever and the shaft has a dead plate over it. How would I go about checking if it has the internals for a 3point. And thanks again for the help.
 
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