Ford 850 engine rebuild questions

Hello forum folks,
I've gotten lots of valuable info from this forum and parts from YT in the past. I'll apologize up front for the length of this post.

I'm asking for some advice from you kind people. I got an 850 about 10 years ago and its been a good "yard" tractor. Used mostly for moving horse manure, snow, pulling small stumps and trees for firewood, grading the driveway and other tasks. Two years ago I got a new Kioti because the old Ford would occasionally (became frequently) require "work" to get it running when I needed it. Anyway, since I've had it, the 850 would burn oil, leaked oil out of the rear seal sometimes gunk would come out of the tailpipe, the valve cover cap was missing and eventually a tapping from the valves/rockers.

I decided now is a good time to take it apart and rebuild the engine, do a better wiring job on my 12 volt conversion, remove all the smutsh from the thing and paint at least the engine and other parts removed. I've never done something like this but am mechanically inclined and generally able. Right now it sits in many parts in my garage with everything removed from the block except the parts inside the block. The engine/block is split from the transmission and clutch removed. Now to the questions of which there are a few at this point.
1- The oil tube that feeds the rockers appears to have been crimped then unbent in the past and actually has a couple of small holes in it. I cant find that part on this site or any other of the known sites. Should I worry about the little holes in the tube or can I make a new one somehow?
2- I dont have a sleeve puller but plan to put new sleeves/pistons etc in - is there some way for me to get the sleeves out safely without damage to the bores/block without a puller?
3- when I split the tractor, the clutch, bearing, flywheel and inside of the bell is very rusty except the bottom which has a nice thick layer of goop which I assume is largely oil from the leaking main seal mixed with rust. - is it normal/ok for all of this stuff to be rusty? There was no seal or gasket between the bell and plate that sits on the block. Should there be something there?
4- While I'm at this point are there other things I should think about "fixing" or checking or cleaning or in general advice that might help me now and after I put it back together?

Thanks in advance for any help..

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I'd replace the oil tube. There's at least one set on eBay right now.

Machine shop will have a sleeve puller and a press to put the new ones in. If you want to do it yourself, there are pullers sold for a $120 or so. Again, eBay. It is possible to make your own puller if you want to mess with it.

Rusty/goopy bellhousing. More 'normal' to be nasty oily, but rusty is also common for tractors that live a unsheltered life. There's a bottom 'inspection plate' mounted with four bolts that should have a hole in it with a cotter pin installed loosely in the hole to allow whatever fluid that collects in the area to drain out. There is no seal between the block and bell housing.

while you're in the area replace the input shaft seal. I'd also replace the throwout bearing and clutch disk just on general principle while the tractor is split.

2X what pomester said. If you are unable to get replacement tubes you could repair them with epoxy or slipping some rubber tubing over the leaks. The tube holds very little pressure.

I happened to think - inspect the ring gear very closely. It's not uncommon for an area of the gear to wear. Once begun it progresses to the point where the starter gear slips. If you find wear on the ring gear, replace it and avoid another split later.

Thanks guys for the comments. Ill check ebay for the tube, the shorter one is fine, its the long one that bends over the rockers thats a little messed up. The rubber tubing fix sounds good if I cant find them on ebay - thanks!

Because of this nnalert stuff, I'd rather not deal with trying to find a good local machine shop to do stuff that I can do at home with a little grunting and a beer. I'll find a puller plate and fashion something up with threaded rod maybe.

As for goop in the bell section, its only in the little recessed areas in the bottom. The inspection plate with cotter pin is in tact and working as it should so theres maybe not all that much goop in there, just more rust and crud than I would have expected. But - this is the first tractor I've split so...
Glad to hear that rust is not uncommon, this tractor has been very much unsheltered with the exception of tarp in the winter to keep snow off the seat and hood to make cleaning it off easier. I'll plan on getting new clutch parts, looks like throwout bearing comes with some clutch kits so I'll do that and the seal as well.
Is that seal a PITA more than any other crap I'm doing or not so bad?

The ring gear looks pretty good with only a few teeth having the rear corner knocked off. Since I've had the tractor it has never had an issue with the starter engaging quickly or skipping or anything so I think I'll leave that alone.

I appreciate you guys sharing what you know with the rest of us.

thanks

(quoted from post at 17:02:41 04/07/20) Thanks guys for the comments. Ill check ebay for the tube, the shorter one is fine, its the long one that bends over the rockers thats a little messed up. The rubber tubing fix sounds good if I cant find them on ebay - thanks!

Because of this nnalert stuff, I'd rather not deal with trying to find a good local machine shop to do stuff that I can do at home with a little grunting and a beer. I'll find a puller plate and fashion something up with threaded rod maybe.

As for goop in the bell section, its only in the little recessed areas in the bottom. The inspection plate with cotter pin is in tact and working as it should so theres maybe not all that much goop in there, just more rust and crud than I would have expected. But - this is the first tractor I've split so...
Glad to hear that rust is not uncommon, this tractor has been very much unsheltered with the exception of tarp in the winter to keep snow off the seat and hood to make cleaning it off easier. I'll plan on getting new clutch parts, looks like throwout bearing comes with some clutch kits so I'll do that and the seal as well.
Is that seal a PITA more than any other crap I'm doing or not so bad?

The ring gear looks pretty good with only a few teeth having the rear corner knocked off. Since I've had the tractor it has never had an issue with the starter engaging quickly or skipping or anything so I think I'll leave that alone.

I appreciate you guys sharing what you know with the rest of us.

thanks

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getenbetter, the transmission input shaft seal is very easy to replace. You remove the seal housing from the bulkhead. Get a new gasket for that. So far as doing it without a machine shop, unless you are equipped to grind your crank and have micrometers and skill in using them it is difficult to know what size bearings to put in. As pomester said, rust is normal, but it doesn't come from lack of shelter, it comes from lack of climate control. Do you ever get condensation on metal surfaces where you are? If you do you are getting it inside your bell housing, transmission engine and rear axle housing as well. The key is to get the machine hot by working it to drive the moisture out. It is not uncommon for clutches to be rusted to the flywheel by moisture from repeated condensation cycles. It is recommended that you block your clutch pedal down during storage to prevent this. I have rebuilt a few sleeved engines but have never bought a puller. I bought a 7/8 diam fine thread bolt, and I just make the top and bottom pieces from scrap. I use a heavy piece at the bottom to break them loose then trim a lighter piece to pull them up through.

So my plan of simply using calipers on the journals and ordering what might be the correct size bearings is not a good idea? Actually I noticed a couple of tiny sections on two journals that I could feel with my fingertip so was hoping to find a shop around my area that can help with that and I'd prob have somebody do the valve seats/head while I'm there. I'm in Southeast NH so do get condensation and it is the case that most often this tractor does not run for long periods at a time to get hot enough to burn out any moisture. I bought a puller plate so should be able to get the sleeves out.
Other than looking on google is there some best way to find a good shop for these old tractor parts? I want to get it to a shop soon so I can order parts and get the thing back together. Then the challenge of getting it running well...

Thanks

(quoted from post at 10:40:30 04/15/20) So my plan of simply using calipers on the journals and ordering what might be the correct size bearings is not a good idea? Actually I noticed a couple of tiny sections on two journals that I could feel with my fingertip so was hoping to find a shop around my area that can help with that and I'd prob have somebody do the valve seats/head while I'm there. I'm in Southeast NH so do get condensation and it is the case that most often this tractor does not run for long periods at a time to get hot enough to burn out any moisture. I bought a puller plate so should be able to get the sleeves out.
Other than looking on google is there some best way to find a good shop for these old tractor parts? I want to get it to a shop soon so I can order parts and get the thing back together. Then the challenge of getting it running well...

Thanks

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Gettenbetter I recommend Jimmy Driscoll at Lawrence Crank on Gigante Drive in Hampstead. He has done work on two engines for me.

So - I've gotten my block, head and crank back from the shop mentioned earlier. It all looks good but now I need to put it back together without leftover screws and such. I did get a new ring gear since the old one did have a section with some damage, I also got a input shaft seal and will replace that.

My 1st question today is about the push rods. One of the rods what slightly bent when I took it out of the engine so I ordered a new one which can be seen in the picture. The new one is about 1/8 shorter than the old one(s) and the end is slightly different.
The one I ordered looks like the images from all of the suppliers for this engine. I'm not sure if the ones I have are original or maybe just old or whatever.. anyway - can I fly with one different push rod or do I need to replace them all this time?

second Q is about piston facing. Looks like the old pistons have a notch in them but the new ones I ordered dont have any marks for front or back. Is it the case with these replacement pistons that they go either way and does not matter?

And lastly the rear main seal question(s)? Which way do the rubber/plastic halves face? With the lip to the front or rear of block? Also, should I put Permatex gasket stuff around all of this stuff when I put the parts back together? Any good tricks to getting the rope seal in well?

Thanks a bunch for all your help..

(quoted from post at 14:21:09 06/11/20) So - I've gotten my block, head and crank back from the shop mentioned earlier. It all looks good but now I need to put it back together without leftover screws and such. I did get a new ring gear since the old one did have a section with some damage, I also got a input shaft seal and will replace that.

My 1st question today is about the push rods. One of the rods what slightly bent when I took it out of the engine so I ordered a new one which can be seen in the picture. The new one is about 1/8 shorter than the old one(s) and the end is slightly different.
The one I ordered looks like the images from all of the suppliers for this engine. I'm not sure if the ones I have are original or maybe just old or whatever.. anyway - can I fly with one different push rod or do I need to replace them all this time?

second Q is about piston facing. Looks like the old pistons have a notch in them but the new ones I ordered dont have any marks for front or back. Is it the case with these replacement pistons that they go either way and does not matter?

And lastly the rear main seal question(s)? Which way do the rubber/plastic halves face? With the lip to the front or rear of block? Also, should I put Permatex gasket stuff around all of this stuff when I put the parts back together? Any good tricks to getting the rope seal in well?

Thanks a bunch for all your help..

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The rod question: I would order 2-3 from different sellers on ebay. keep in mind that 600-800-900-901, all use the same pushrods. See what matches up with yours. 1/8 difference would probably not be a problem but, when getting head work done the height of the rocker arms is always a concern. If I could get around it without a lot of time or expense, why not? The piston orientation: better talk to Jimmy about that. Rear main seal: It appears that you are asking about both a rope seal and a neoprene seal. sometimes seal kits contain both. The neoprene are pretty straight forward. Rope seals can be a challenge, but whichever you use the side seals are even more of a challenge. I recently did one on a foreign car that had REALLY SWEET side seals. I recommend that anyone contemplating installing a rope seal watch the You-Tube video on replacing the seal in a Holden V-8, three times and take notes! I would like to come by and see your project. Shoot me an email.

Back at it guys. Thanks for the help.
As for the rods, I actually have one thats slightly shorter than the others but its the size that would come if I bought all replacements now. I wonder if the "old" rods were not taken from some other engine. Anyway I figured it would not matter if one as a smidge shorter as long as the clearances were right.

I got everything put back together about a month ago and rolled the tractor back outside to fire it up. I rough set the timing based on TDC and the marks on the flywheel and basically tried to put the distributor cap in the right place. I had rebuild the carb so was not sure about how well that would work. Anyway, I got it to fire, moved the distributor left and right to find what felt good then fiddled with the carb and back to the distributor. It ran great and had good oil pressure.

I was thrilled until I saw oil running out of the weep hole under the bell housing. For giggles and stuff I tried to drive it back into the garage in 1st gear but the clutch did not release, it just ground gears.

Now I have more questions -
1 - could a new clutch have frozen to the flywheel in a few months sitting in my garage?
2- how could this happen? Its a pretty straight forward clutch and install, I cant imagine anything that could have been installed incorrectly to cause this.

My plan -
1 - I got an engine hoist and plan to split the tractor - used a pallet with casters and blocks last time cause I didnt have a hoist and stand, also planning to do full tear down didnt matter.
2 - I got a engine stand and plan to mount the engine on it with everything still attached (is this possible with radiator and other "stuff") so I can flip it upside down to better get at the rear seal. - used the same pallet and blocks to mess with it previously.
3- check the clutch while its split - needs to come off anyway to get at the main seal since I've heard it really sucks to try to do upside down.

the clutch feels right and I did adjust the pedal according to the book. A little free play then heavy clutch for remainder of pedal movement, just like it was prior to rebuild. Its clearly pushing on the heavy springs, and I just cant imagine why the disk would not be free..

As always, I greatly appreciate all your knowledge and help.

Showcrop, I looked for your email but for some reason cant find it although I know we've been on the same emails in the past.. If you have mine send me a note. I do have your phone number though so can text or call you. Would be happy to see you again, been a long time especially with nnalert and all.

A clutch disc in backwards generally will not release. I wouldn't expect a new clutch to stick setting in a shop.

Well that is too bad! A frequent cause of the clutch sticking like that is it being in backwards. I agree that the leak must be the rear main. You will want to remove the radiator. I don't have a whole lot going on this week except spreading fertilizer and work on the Datsun, but I will be busy both weekend days with fire training. So just shoot me a text.

tips on the rear seal.

https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1474683&highlight=seal