Hydraulic/transmission fluid

Rescue11

Member
We have all IH / Case IH tractors and are, what some might call hytran purists. The 661 im fixing up needs new fluid (transmission, hydraulic, and rear-end) and I have heard of guys using a hydraulic/transmission fluid in all 3, but haven't been around it.

Will using hytran ultraction in all three compartments cause any damage to the tractor?
 


The 661 has no clutch packs so the expensive additives that UTF (Hytran) contains will not do anything to help it or to be nice to it. Hytran (UTF) will however, due to the additives, absorb moisture. A little moisture in the oil is OK just so long as the tractor gets run hard enough for long enough frequently enough to drive the moisture off. If the moisture is not driven off you get "coffee milk shake" oil which will not pump well when cold and will not lubricate as well as oil without water. If you use plain hydraulic oil the water will separate out and you can easily drain it off.
 
If I don't run it hard to "burn" the water
out of the oil it can actually have a
negative impact on the tractor? Gear oil is
better for the transmission?
 

Well I'm no expert on this but I've run the cheap 303 hytran in the international. Just got a 1500. The guy before me said he run hytran. I drained it as it was milky but the hydraulics worked fine. I bot the VPlus J20A hytran from TSC for 30 bux for 5 gal for the 2606. Read the info and it says it meets the Ford standard 134D so that is good enough for me. The 1500 just takes 5 gal so that is a cheap oil change compared to the IH. I think about any of those oils will get moisture if they aren't worked to hard. I know I will get flamed for this so do what you think.
 
(quoted from post at 20:08:31 01/22/21) If I don't run it hard to "burn" the water
out of the oil it can actually have a
negative impact on the tractor? Gear oil is
better for the transmission?


Absolutely. You can look it up yourself. Modern oils can do a much better job of lubricating than older plain oils, BUT, due to the additives they absorb moisture more readily. Water in your bearings is not good.
 

Hello Rescue. I based my response on the premise that your 661 was like my 1500 in that the tranny, rear end, and hydraulics were all connected and have one place to add fluid. My 1500 has the dry clutch. Mine has 3 drain plugs, one on the left and right rear axle housing and the tranny. When I drained the two axle housings which were lower it also drained the tranny as well since nothing came out of it. If yours isn't that way then disregard what I said.

Showcrop has a point about the hydraulic oil not absorbing water so the water, if any, will collect in the bottom of the axle housings so they can be drained off. Guess I'll fork over the extra bux for hydraulic oil whenever I do the next change.
 
If you use the UTF (Hytrans) in all 3 sumps and don't work the tractor hard on a regular basis you simply need to change the fluid more often to prevent the long term negative impact of water in the oil.

If you run gear oil in the trans and rear end and plain hydraulic oil in the hydraulic sump, then you have to monitor for leaking seals and cross-contamination between the sumps, as the trans and rear end gears won't like plain hydraulic fluid mixed with the gear oil for very long.

Your choice, UTF and change the fluid more often, or separate fluids and check for cross-contamination on a regular basis.
 
(quoted from post at 11:14:22 01/23/21) If you use the UTF (Hytrans) in all 3 sumps and don't work the tractor hard on a regular basis you simply need to change the fluid more often to prevent the long term negative impact of water in the oil.

If you run gear oil in the trans and rear end and plain hydraulic oil in the hydraulic sump, then you have to monitor for leaking seals and cross-contamination between the sumps, as the trans and rear end gears won't like plain hydraulic fluid mixed with the gear oil for very long.

Your choice, UTF and change the fluid more often, or separate fluids and check for cross-contamination on a regular basis.

Well Sean I'll bet that Rescue 11 knows that it is his choice. How about we give him some helpful information to help him with the choice? How frequently would you say that someone posts about coffee milkshake oil, vs oil contaminated between chambers by a leaking seal? And we are not talking about the hydraulic tubes in the Ford transmissions. My estimation is one every three weeks when leveled out year round for coffee milkshake vs. One every 6 years for leaking seals. The simple fact is that as I am sure you know, seals in a clean environment last a very, very long time, and and even when they start to leak they will usually leak so little as to be inconsequential for many years. Moisture in oil from condensation depending on the weather can happen in just a few months. The checking for cross contamination would be taking place anyway when an annual check for water takes place.
 
(quoted from post at 18:39:37 01/23/21)
(quoted from post at 11:14:22 01/23/21) If you use the UTF (Hytrans) in all 3 sumps and don't work the tractor hard on a regular basis you simply need to change the fluid more often to prevent the long term negative impact of water in the oil.

If you run gear oil in the trans and rear end and plain hydraulic oil in the hydraulic sump, then you have to monitor for leaking seals and cross-contamination between the sumps, as the trans and rear end gears won't like plain hydraulic fluid mixed with the gear oil for very long.

Your choice, UTF and change the fluid more often, or separate fluids and check for cross-contamination on a regular basis.

Well Sean I'll bet that Rescue 11 knows that it is his choice. How about we give him some helpful information to help him with the choice? How frequently would you say that someone posts about coffee milkshake oil, vs oil contaminated between chambers by a leaking seal? And we are not talking about the hydraulic tubes in the Ford transmissions. My estimation is one every three weeks when leveled out year round for coffee milkshake vs. One every 6 years for leaking seals. The simple fact is that as I am sure you know, seals in a clean environment last a very, very long time, and and even when they start to leak they will usually leak so little as to be inconsequential for many years. Moisture in oil from condensation depending on the weather can happen in just a few months. The checking for cross contamination would be taking place anyway when an annual check for water takes place.

Up until my post, no one had mentioned leaking seals at all. I just thought that I would mention them to let him know that there were potential up and down sides to both choices. You are free to voice your opinion over which is a better choice, including your opinion on frequency of seals leaking vs. water in UTF, that is your choice.
 
As I recall my '63 2000 ( a blue 600 series in a later model) uses GL-1 90w oil in the tranny and differential. Hyd gets plain hyd fluid. I changed over to 303 type, Trans/hydraulic/differential oil , ford 134 A,B spec THD oil as I recall, years ago in the tranny and hyd sump.....the 3000 series coming out in 1965 just combined these functions anyway where TDH was the spec oil so I said why not....shifts easier in the winter. May be a tad noisier on a 57 year old tractor. If I ever completely drain the diff, it will get THD oil too.

This is not the premium oil needed by wet brakes, hydraulic steering and hydraulic/hydrostatic/shuttle drive systems popular in tractors of the last 20ish years. No reason you couldn't run it...just expensive.
 

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