Frozen hydraulics on 3 point

LarsT

New User
I’ve got a blade attached to my 3 point on my 8N. When I went
to the cabin to pick it up from it’s summer job of drive
maintenance it wouldn’t raise until it ran for about 5 minutes. It
was about 30 above. Now I’ve git it home for snow plowing
and it won’t raise at all after some sub zero weather. I’ve had
this issue before and I just wait until it warms a little to work
and then change oil to get the water out. I need to plow my
drive now, any tips or ideas?
 
Your hydraulic oil is too thick. Someone may have put in heavy gear oil. I would drain it and then flush the system and install the correct oil. It should work correctly then.
 


The UTF is your problem. The additives suck moisture out of the air and it looks like a milk shake doesn't it. You can have only so much moisture suspended in your oil before it will refuse to pump. You need to get it warmed up and replace it with cheap plain hydraulic oil. You need UTF only if you have clutch packs in your hydraulics or transmission. You haven't added any clutch packs to it have you?
 
(quoted from post at 09:16:50 01/04/21)

The UTF is your problem. The additives suck moisture out of the air and it looks like a milk shake doesn't it. You can have only so much moisture suspended in your oil before it will refuse to pump. You need to get it warmed up and replace it with cheap plain hydraulic oil. You need UTF only if you have clutch packs in your hydraulics or transmission. You haven't added any clutch packs to it have you?

Going to go pickup my new to me ford 1500 tomorrow. Probably change the oil first thing. How do you tell if one has clutch packs? Mine has the MMFD front wheel drive with 2 transmissions and you pull a lever to engage the pto with the clutch in. That is all I know about it now. Been trying to figure out if that is a live or dead pto. I know when I tried it out in the pouring rain storm that the pto would work while tractor was stopped.
 
(quoted from post at 07:45:35 01/04/21)
(quoted from post at 09:16:50 01/04/21)

The UTF is your problem. The additives suck moisture out of the air and it looks like a milk shake doesn't it. You can have only so much moisture suspended in your oil before it will refuse to pump. You need to get it warmed up and replace it with cheap plain hydraulic oil. You need UTF only if you have clutch packs in your hydraulics or transmission. You haven't added any clutch packs to it have you?

Going to go pickup my new to me ford 1500 tomorrow. Probably change the oil first thing. How do you tell if one has clutch packs? Mine has the MMFD front wheel drive with 2 transmissions and you pull a lever to engage the pto with the clutch in. That is all I know about it now. Been trying to figure out if that is a live or dead pto. I know when I tried it out in the pouring rain storm that the pto would work while tractor was stopped.


bc, I took a quick look through the CNH parts pages and I see that both the main drive and PTO clutches are dry discs so there don't appear to be any hydraulic clutch packs.
 
You can hang a shop light under it to keep it warm and you can also buy a magnetic oil pan heater to stick to it if it's inside. Outside you would probably need to place some type of wind block around it, maybe a tarp. I don't know the N's so i couldn't tell you the best place to place it.
 
(quoted from post at 08:14:54 01/04/21) You can hang a shop light under it to keep it warm and you can also buy a magnetic oil pan heater to stick to it if it's inside. Outside you would probably need to place some type of wind block around it, maybe a tarp. I don't know the N's so i couldn't tell you the best place to place it.

Riveroadrat, are you suggesting that he just leave the water in it?
 
Ok that oil should work. But you do need to drain it all out and flush the system good. I have done this many times using diesel fuel to flush with. Drain all the hydraulic oil and refill with the diesel. Start the tractor and let everything warm up good. Hopefully the lift will start working after it warms up. You can even drive the tractor around for a few minutes. Then drain it all out. This will get the water and sludge out of the housing. Refill with the diesel and flush it again. Drain and the put new oil back in. If the pump is ok everything should work again. I have had many of the "N" tractors brought to me over the years with the lifts slow or not working at all. A good flushing and new oil has fixed many of them. Water and moisture in cold freezing weather will cause problems.
 
Thanks, that’s next on the list. I had the same trouble a while back and started changing the fluid when I brought it home from the cabin for the summer to plow at home. It didn’t happen this year and now I’ll be doing it in the cold. I don’t have power in my storage garage. My fault for putting it off. I’ve never had trouble with it not working at all though. Usually it works once the PTO has ran for awhile. Thanks for the help guys.
 
As others have said,, you may have water in it and it is freezing up.... if its below 32F.

Or you may have very thick oil in it and that is too thick for the pump to suck up...


Or you may have a very very worn out pump that simply has more trouble when the oil is thick

Or you may have all of the above.

The owners manual calls for 90w above 32F and 80w below 32F.

The 8n site will let you down load an owners manual.

AS others will tell you, you can run a more modern fluid like a mutiweight 80/90 oil that will work in wider temperature ranges Or even a 70/90 weight oil that will be more expensive. This will still be inline with the original fluid recommendations and exceed them.

Or some even convert to a universal tractor hydraulic fluid, but the lesser fluids are only good down to 20F or you can run the more expensive fluids that are also good for a wider temperature range for use above and below 20f.

If your hydraulic pump is a bit tired due to being 72 years old, and causing this problem,, you might want to stay away from the thinner fluids, or even add some lucas oil stabilizer to the mix to help keep pressures up at the expense of cold weather operation till you can get the pump rebuilt. The lucas will work well because you have no wet brakes or clutches to worry about and help the pump suck better even in cold..
 
(quoted from post at 20:52:35 01/04/21) As others have said,, you may have water in it and it is freezing up.... if its below 32F.

Or you may have very thick oil in it and that is too thick for the pump to suck up...


Or you may have a very very worn out pump that simply has more trouble when the oil is thick

Or you may have all of the above.

The owners manual calls for 90w above 32F and 80w below 32F.

The 8n site will let you down load an owners manual.

AS others will tell you, you can run a more modern fluid like a mutiweight 80/90 oil that will work in wider temperature ranges Or even a 70/90 weight oil that will be more expensive. This will still be inline with the original fluid recommendations and exceed them.

Or some even convert to a universal tractor hydraulic fluid, but the lesser fluids are only good down to 20F or you can run the more expensive fluids that are also good for a wider temperature range for use above and below 20f.

If your hydraulic pump is a bit tired due to being 72 years old, and causing this problem,, you might want to stay away from the thinner fluids, or even add some lucas oil stabilizer to the mix to help keep pressures up at the expense of cold weather operation till you can get the pump rebuilt. The lucas will work well because you have no wet brakes or clutches to worry about and help the pump suck better even in cold..

Sotxbill, read Lars' second post. He is already using UTF. Read my post.
 
(quoted from post at 06:37:46 01/05/21)
What about adding a quart of ATF to thin down the mix of UTF?


bc, note that lars says that he needs to "get the water out". I take that to mean that he has water mixed with his oil as happens very often with UTF. He needs to not thin it but change it.
 
(quoted from post at 12:32:30 01/05/21)
(quoted from post at 06:37:46 01/05/21)
What about adding a quart of ATF to thin down the mix of UTF?


bc, note that lars says that he needs to "get the water out". I take that to mean that he has water mixed with his oil as happens very often with UTF. He needs to not thin it but change it.

Thanks but I just meant in general to thin the fluid for the winter and not as an answer to Lars question.
 

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