1972 3cyl diesel timing issue

Vmard

New User
I have a 1972 diesel 4400 3 cylinder tractor that I am rebuilding. It will not start and after exhaustive trial and error I believe my problem falls into the actual timing. It"s my understanding TDC would be at zero but I have also been told that regardless of what is stamped on the manifold that my number one piston would not be at the front of the tractor but near the manifold. Can anyone give me any more detailed information as far as setting up the timing of this tractor please?
 
If all the timing gears are in time by dots the pump will only go on one way cause of dowel pin. If been setting long time metering valve in pump is stuck.
 
#1 piston IS at the front of the tractor. Firing order is 1-2-3. The injection pump can only bolt to the timing gear in one position, but the timing can be varied several degrees before or after TDC.
 
Do you have fuel at the injectors when bleeding? If so, do you have any white exhaust smoke while cranking? No fuel or smoke could mean injection pump has stuck internal parts as Shaun said, metering valve and or plungers..
 
Thank you for your reply confirming number one piston is at the front of the tractor. If the TDC mark is it in view in what position does the number one cylinder need to be in...up?
 
Thank you for your informative reply. I have installed a new injection pump which seems to be working properly.
 
Injection pump is working fine I installed a new one. Need more assistance in the actual timing itself
 
If you installed the timing gears correctly inside the timing case. The dowell pin will align the pump. Very minor timing can be attained by turning the pump, but I don't think you can get it out far enough it will not start.Did you have a service manual when you installed the gears?
 

If you aligned the timing gears properly as in the photo
mvphoto66237.jpg

Mounted the pump with the dowel pin in the gear aligned with the notch in the pump drive, and lined up the pump to the zero mark on the engine plate, it's in time.
mvphoto66238.jpg


No need to check where the pistons are, no need to line up the marks on the flywheel.
Once the gears are aligned during assembly you can remover and reinstall the injection pump in time by simply aligning the dowel pin with the slot and clinging the pumps crib mark with zero on the plate, you don't even have to set the engine at TDC
 

Hit submit before prof reading.
I hate when spell check corrects the spelling by putting in the wrong word

Clinging the scribe mark should be aligning the scribe mark
 

When... you remove the pump.. its critical that you do not crank or move the engine untill the new pump is installed... as the gear sits against the other gear in the correct position. and since the pump has a dowl pin that only allows it to be install in one postion,,, you basically back into timing...

HOWEVER... if you for any reason allow the gear to disengage with the other gears, you have lost the gear timing and now you will have to pull the timing cover off and static time all the gears again...

did you ever allow the gear to be pulled away from the teeth of the other gear?? did you crank it or pick up on the gear or remove the gear?????
 
It's physically impossible for the gears to come out of mesh as you describe. The timing cover does not allow enough internal
clearance for the teeth to separate from each other.
 
(quoted from post at 10:06:31 12/10/20) It's physically impossible for the gears to come out of mesh as you describe. The timing cover does not allow enough internal
clearance for the teeth to separate from each other.

I think that he meant turning the engine with the timing cover removed. You do have to remove the timing cover to remove the pump and lots of folks simply leave it off until they get the work on the pump finished.
 

All you have to remove is the tin plate on the front of the timing cover to get to the pump gear bolts.
Bern's correct once the gears are timed and the front cover is installed you can turn the engine over as much as you want and the pump gear will stay in time with the other gears, there's not enough room for the pump gear to skip over the teeth on the idler gear.
 


Vmard, STOP!!!!! A timing problem is possible but far less likely than a fuel problem. You could tap into the knowledge here by sharing what makes you so sure that you have eliminated the likely problems.
 

Bern, and Destroked...

good to know... I always worried when pulling a pump that someone would come along and try to crank it.. So I always removed the key and pulled the battery cables..... I know there is some play as the gear, as it will move a bit,, but never wanted to put myself in the situation of having to pull the front cowling, radiator, and timing cover and start over... so therefore the extreme caution was always used when a pump was out on any engine.
 
(quoted from post at 00:22:34 12/11/20)
All you have to remove is the tin plate on the front of the timing cover to get to the pump gear bolts.
Bern's correct once the gears are timed and the front cover is installed you can turn the engine over as much as you want and the pump gear will stay in time with the other gears, there's not enough room for the pump gear to skip over the teeth on the idler gear.

I forgot about that small cover plate. Last time I had a pump off was when I was doing more to the engine so I had the whole front cover off.
 
I would like to thank you all for your very timely and extremely informative and helpful information. I finally got the tractor to start and I would like to let you all know what the real problem was...apparently the chipmunks/mice stored sunflower seeds in the valves. I never gave this a thought until the tractor finally turned over sending bits of seeds and sparks out of the exhaust. I shut off the engine and readjusted the valves, cleaning out the winter supply of seed and now the tractor purrs like a kitten. Now, after putting the tractor together I have an issue with the steering.
The first thing I noticed was the power steering was not operational and very sluggish. When I turn on the tractor, with the front end jacked up, the wheels turn to the right of their own accord and there is hydraulic fluid being forced out of the vent of the reservoir. My attempts to remedy this is as follows: switched the hoses at the piston, confirm the hydraulic fluid level is appropriate.
Does anyone have any idea what might be causing this issue?
Thank you for your time and attention to my request; I look forward to hearing from you. May I offer my best wishes to you and yours for a safe, happy, and healthy holiday season.
 

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