So what does it mean?

Probably a stupid question but I got 2 comments from family members and I don't honestly know which one is true.

So its 34F outside this eve, I had to move the backhoe (63/64 4000 4cyl diesel) and it cranked over about 5 times and started up. No glow plugs no ether. Clean exhaust no visible smoke or stink.

My brother said "Oh that means the engine is really tight, someone must have rebuilt it as old as it is. It has great compression to start like that in the cold" My nephew said "no... that doesn't mean much, All old diesels start that easy if they spin over fast enough and the injector pump is good"

To be honest... I dont which one is right and who is full of it. :lol:

So which one wins the BS award of the week?
 
I've got 40 yr old Leylands with Simms pump excess fuel button that will start up that way. I've got 30 yr old skid loaders with Perkins and Cav pumps that won't but they are real tolerant of starting fluid and the one overhauled starts quicker. I had a 65 Ford 5000 diesel with the Simms pump that started fairly good until I had it overhauled and then it started hard. Dealer said only a thicker head gasket was now available and this lowered the compression. Cranking speed is essential.
 
My 64 Allis Chalmers diesel backhoe spins real fast (2 high cranking batteries, fat battery cables and a good starter), but won't start below 50 degrees. I've had it for over 20 years. It's very well used.

I would think many things come into play for a diesel - good compression, proper injection pump timing and good cranking speed, IMHO

I'd probably go with your brother's suggestion.
 
The early Simms inline pumps did not have the retard start notch cut into the plunger top like the late pumps do. His Ford early 4000 has the rotary Stanadyne-RoosaMaster pump, those never had excess fuel available. Hartford Machine Screw proved years ago their Roosa designed pump will start fine with less than full load fuel delivery at cranking speed. If full load delivery is 50 CC per 1000 shots, then pump MUST deliver at least 1/2 delivery at 200 engine RPM cranking speed per the test spec sheet.
 
My brother said "Oh that means the engine is really tight, someone must have rebuilt it as old as it is. It has great compression to start like that in the cold" My nephew said "no... that doesn't mean much, All old diesels start that easy if they spin over fast enough and the injector pump is good"

What that means is that they both have an opinion, and as someone once said.... opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has one and everyone thinks that their's is the only one that doesn't stink.
 
As a kid we got a 841D it got an inframe overhaul and we had the pump and injectors checked..

It was miserable to start.. dad double and triple checked the timing it was fine.. you could pull it and within less then 20 feet of letting the clutch out it was running..

One day dad had it with it.. it was parked next to our NAA that had been converted to 12V. He took an hour and swapped the starters between them, Putting the 6v gasser starter in the 841D and the 12v Diesel starter in the NAA.. I can still walk out with the temp well below freezing and that 841 will fire right off..

CRANKING SPEED MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE.
 

IMHO, your tractor met your needs and started in the cold and that's a good thing.

Dunno WHY there's any need for justification/explanation/approval from your brother or your nephew???
 
(quoted from post at 23:08:12 12/03/20) As a kid we got a 841D it got an inframe overhaul and we had the pump and injectors checked..

It was miserable to start.. dad double and triple checked the timing it was fine.. you could pull it and within less then 20 feet of letting the clutch out it was running..

One day dad had it with it.. it was parked next to our NAA that had been converted to 12V. He took an hour and swapped the starters between them, Putting the 6v gasser starter in the 841D and the 12v Diesel starter in the NAA.. I can still walk out with the temp well below freezing and that 841 will fire right off..

CRANKING SPEED MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE.

I didn't think that a gasser starter would even mesh properly with a diesel ring gear. And if they did mate up then I would think that a diesel starter should still spin spin the engine faster. I'm wondering if that 841d had a gasser ring gear and starter to begin with when you got it and the starter was just tired from starting that diesel for some period of time before you even got it.
 

I think both of the comments are true... a good engine will take longer to start if it is cranked slowly. A bad engine will take forever.. SO...


its obviously cranking properly.

and...

It has very good compression to fire off that quickly, especially in the cold.

SO...

I can argue it started quickly because the battery was very good.

or the battery cables are very good

or the starter switch is very good

or the diesel fuel is of proper quality

or the air filter is good,

all of which are true but none of these statements disqualifies the fact it cranks properly fast, and the engine has good compression.


however any one of these being false, could prevent a engine with good compression and a good starter from starting.
 
Ford ring gears and starter drives are the same from 1939 to 1964 regardless of fuel type.
 
(quoted from post at 17:44:35 12/04/20) Ford ring gears and starter drives are the same from 1939 to 1964 regardless of fuel type.

Thanks for that info. I knew that they were definitely different between the gassers and diesels in the 1965+ tractors but wasn't sure on the earlier ones.
 
Dunno WHY there's any need for justification/explanation/approval from your brother or your nephew???

There isn't... it was simply passing conversation comments that I was curious to which of them was right. I neither seek nor need their approval of anything.
 
Compression is number one factor in good starting, faster cranking helps compression.

It didn't really crank over that fast, not as fast as it did in the summer anyway. The first few rotations I thought "oh boy this thing aint gonna start". :lol:
 

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