Diesel starting to smoke a bit... potential problems?

We got this 63/64 4000 industrial tractor backhoe a while back... 4 cyl diesel. When we got it, it did not smoke at all. It is starting to a bit and I want to nip any problems in the bud before it gets worse if I can.

I didn't notice it in the daytime other than a puff on acceleration, which as I understand is normal. However I put a new muffler & pipe on it a few weeks ago, and tonight while moving some hay rolls , in the light of my headlamp I see it puffing blue smoke. At the joint of the muffler there is a little oil running down the outside of the pipe and the flapper at the top is oily. Ill have toi see tomorrow in the daylight if its visibly smoky and how bad.

Now, for the last few weeks, we only use it to move hay every couple days, we start it up, let it get warm for a few min, then move the roll in place, and turn it off....maybe 10 min this takes. My nephew tells me these short runs is not good for a diesel engine... I have no idea if he is right. It doesnt normally run long enough to get the temp up to normal op temps. it never occured to me this was bad... is it? Will doing this make it start smoking? If so why and can we undo the problem now or are we screwed?

It has no problem at all starting.... it starts really easy and fast every time. We run it about 1200 rpm while moving the hay rolls. it doesn't make any odd noise, or stall or surge or anything.... it runs really smooth and quiet.... for a diesel.

The oil seems normal, I don't think its got fuel in it. It did when we got it, but we had the injector pump rebuilt and changed the oil, and it never smoked at all after that until now.

Is this a problem coming from the way we use it every other day, not warming it up or working the engine hard enough?

I'm diesel stupid.... help.

Thanks!

I'd say yes, the problem is yours and not the tractor's. A diesel needs to be worked. You're just idling around at 1200 every other day is causing "diesel slobber", unburnt fuel to get in to the exhaust. It makes black oily streaks anywhere it can get out of the system. It also would have residual fuel in the exhaust to make smoke.

Fire it up and work it!

Times two what Larry said, work it. Also check to see if the thermostat is working, if stuck open engine will run cooler than it should and make "diesel slobber" worse.
Diesel engines burn cleaner with heat..

The new temp gauge has condensation in it so I am going to guess it was bad out of the box... it never moves. I'll have to put a new/better one on.

Moving hay for now is about the only job it has for now... will letting it sit at a high idle for a while and getting the engine normally hot do the trick? Or driving it around at 1500+ rpm ?

Define "work it" lol

Thanks... its good to know its not the tractor.

"Work it" means loading the engine down until it begs for mercy. Unfortunately, that's a little hard to do with a backhoe unit. Maybe go look
for a large concrete block that you can drag around in an open field connected with a chain. Or maybe find a pickup truck you can drag around
in a field with the brakes locked.

Thanks.

Now, what technically is the difference between working it hard and just running it at a high rpm? If the temp is up to hot normal and its running at 1500 - 1700 RPM Sitting there, how is that different to the engine than going at that RPM and under a workload? How does resistance (load) make a difference?

More diesel basics I dont understand yet... I'm getting there.

Allow me to make this comparison: Imagine jogging on level ground. Then imagine jogging at the same speed up a hill wearing 100# on your
back. See the difference? Your engine sure will.

Trust me, you want to work the engine hard, not baby it. The cooling system temps might be the same, but the internal temperatures will be
much higher when you work it hard, which is what you want. Kinda like cooking meat, by getting it hot you kill off potential creepy crawlers.

Some of the Ford diesels are cold blooded.


Vito

(quoted from post at 18:01:08 09/09/20) Some of the Ford diesels are cold blooded.


Vito

Click to expand...

And your point is???

I wrote a post early this morning, previewed it and must have forgotten to submit it. I like Bern's jogging analysis.
But my definition of hard work was this. Either:

1. put it on a 3 bottom plow and stick that plow at least 6 inches deep in the toughest soil you can find. Work the pewadden outa that rig for about 3 hours.

2. hitch a dyno do it and do the same as number 1.

Since it is a backhoe... the best I can do is either dig with the hoe, or move the manure mountain somewhere else. Or I could wrap a chain on some of those downed trees and drag em out where I can chop em up. There isn't a whole lot of hard jobs to do around here with it.

If second cutting hay is good, Ill have a few loads of those to move.... I could drive those 900# rolls down to the barn. Thats a long drive.

I'll find some work for it. Maybe the neighbor needs a ditch dug or something.

Grab the biggest log you can find and drag it around in circles as fast as you can for about 1/2 hour. Your neighbors will think you're an
idiot, but it'll get the job done.

Well its being used to feed a pack of 9 old retired dairy cows my girlfriend trucked home from the dairy she works on. They become her pets and she can't stand to put em on the truck so... we adopt em. They make nice pets, as 3/4 ton pets go.

So the neighbor farmers ask us what are we doing with them?

Breeding? No.
Milking? No.
Fattening them up to butcher? No.

I say "we are going to feed them until they drop dead and then bury them".

So... they already think we're nuts. Me dragging a tree around all day with a backhoe will just confuse them more.

I'll tell them I'm trying to halter train the log.

You could always wait until one of the cows drops dead and then drag it around instead of a log. If the neighbors then ask what you're doing,
you could simply say that you're trying to pull start it.

I got a new temp gauge, and I tested this one with a pot of water being brought to a boil and at the same time, checking it with a good digital thermometer. It works fine. So I removed the old new one and put this one in the tractor. Topped it off with water and took it out in the field for some work. I moved round bales. took some up the hill which put a good load on it. I ran it about 90 min, always at about 1800 RPM, and it pretty much stopped smoking. There is some gunk running off the pipes but Im gonna take the exhaust system off and give it a good cleaning.

The problem I found is, in all that time and work, it never got above 150F. I took the rad cap off, and its right... the rad water temp was just about 150F when I stuck a probe in it.

So I will assume the thermostat is stuck open. Good thing I didn't put the tin work back on yet.

Ok after a long search process here, I'm coming up with what seems to be the right thermostat...

Depending on the temp range. Since winter is coming soon, and the way we use the tractor requires that we get it hot ASAP and keep it that way.... My guess is a 195F thermostat would be a the best bet.

What I have lined up is this Napa part I gleened from the post archives...

Napa Thermostat - Economy - Alternate Temp
Part #: THM 269
Flange Diameter 2.11"
Jiggle Pin No
Temperature Range 195 Deg F

If this is or isn't the right part... please let me know. I'd rather deal with Napa since there is 2 of them a few miles from here and I can get the parts (and take em back) easy.

They have a premium one for twice the price... not sure what premium they are selling. Looks like the same item....

Without a pin, how will it bled off the trapped air? Should I drill a bleeder into the flange?

I can't find a part # for the right gasket, so if anyone kows that one, please let me know., I can make gaskets for it out of good water pump gasket material I have a roll of but... if I can get the gasket ready made so much the better.

I can't help you on the NAPA part number, however, get the hottest one you can find and leave it in there year round. The NH parts book shows
the hottest listed as 188 degrees.

Don't drill a hole in the thermostat for bleeding purposes. You're defeating the purpose of a thermostat by doing that. It will make it
harder to warm up in cold weather. To bleed the system, fill the radiator as full as you can, then unscrew and remove the temp sending unit
and let the air escape. Shove it back in when water starts to trickle out. Repeat as necessary.

I'll pick up the 195 and try it. if it fits I will get back here and let ya know.

Yup that napa part fits in the engine perfect.

Just for info sake... I tested the old brass thermostat I took out, looks like an antique. It works fine, if you want it to start opening at 155F and fully open at 190F. With water flowing thru it, it probably opens faster.

It took me a while to figure out that gooseneck had a 3rd bolt in it behind the power steering pump.

I finished up this eve with this.... that 3rd bolt held the power steering pump on. That was interesting.

But, the new thermostat in, warmed up and off to move some things around. The temp went up to 225F. I was about to shut it off and it dropped suddenly to 170F. Then it crept back up up up to 225 and dropped right back down to 170. It did that pretty regularly for the rest of the eve.

I don't know if 225F is an acceptable high point... I will assume so. I did not expect a 195F thermostat to run the engine that hot before it cycled. If you leave it sit and idle at 1500 rpm it sits around 200 and doesn't cycle. As soon as you start moving it starts its 225-170-225-170 cycle no matter what you are doing with it.

Ya said the hotter the better... I guess its better now. LOL[/u]

I'll add use a 2 blade fan. I bought a 4000 row crop that had 6 blades on it and it was noisy. It has the correct 2 blade now.

Its called slobbering.... a combination of....

water vapor forming from a cold engine and muffler as it heats up.... mixing with all the [i:640ae8cd49]carbon[/i:640ae8cd49] in the manifold and muffler that creates a black liguid.... PLUS

a bit of unburnt diesel fuel that can be exhausted from the first couple of cranks that did not fully burn, PLUS

a bit of motor oil that seeps through the exhaust valves into the exhaust system due to some valve guide wear that happens when the engine is shut down...

None of which is harmful, just a nuisance.

Running hard simply heats up the system hot enough to simply burn all of this goo out of the exhaust system. Running for short bits.... means the moisture, oil, and goo are not fully cleaned out, so you then see it leaking at all the places it can leak from in the exhaust system. So lots of short runs means your manifold is well oiled down, waiting for you to wear a white shirt and then run it hard and it will speckle your clothing, and hood. This is especially true in colder weather, and always after painting the tractor.

Thanks for that explanation.

The problem did show me where all the not so tight joints are on that nice clean painted exhaust system... just follow the black drool and splatter.

The new thermo is too hot or something is wrong with it, the temp swinga from 225+ down to 160 and back. Im going to put a new 180F in there and leave well enough alone for the winter. That should keep it pretty stable around 200F I think...I'll soon find out.

Other than gunking the thing up.. as long as we run it up to normal op temp and keep the idle up 1200-1500 while we are moving hay, will this kind of use cause any real damage?