Ford 231 PYO Clutch

offgrid · Sep 6, 2020

Hi all, reposting my question here on the Ford board:

I just bought a Ford 231 model number BL253C built in June 1979. I understand that it should have an 8 speed trans with a dual clutch (aka live PTO). But with a 41 year old machine how can I know for sure? The tractor acts like it has a transmission PTO as both the trans and PTO are either engaged or disengaged with no apparent middle position where the PTO is engaged and the trans is not. The PTO goes in and out of gear OK with the clutch depressed fully, as does the trans.

The transmission clutch is solid, no slipping. I had done the 2x4 friction test on the PTO when I bought it but had no implement available to properly load test it. Now I've connected it to a bush hog and the PTO is slowing to a stop when I load up the cutter. Engine and trans speed is not effected. So it appears likely that I do indeed have a dual clutch system with a failing PTO clutch, and it looks like I will need to split the tractor.

I have one question first: is there any way to confirm that I have the dual clutch setup without splitting the tractor?

Thanks!

Sean in PA · Sep 6, 2020

The 3 in the next to last character of the BL253C model number says that it has live PTO, which uses a double clutch. Is that BL253C model number from the sticker under the hood? If so look for the same number stamped into the bell housing just above and slightly rearward on the tractor from the starter. If it has the same number stamped there then the transmission itself has the internals for a live PTO and the PTO would not work at all unless it had a double clutch.

Sean in PA · Sep 6, 2020

After thinking on it a minute, it is possible that the internals of the transmission have been replaced with a transmission driven PTO configuration that would use a single clutch, but it is very unlikely.

Plus, the fact that the transmission drives the tractor but the PTO slows down with the mower attached tells us that it has a dual clutch.

offgrid · Sep 6, 2020

I'll check the model number on the housing as well, and yes the PTO slipping certainly points to a dual clutch setup.

It just seems odd that I would have a dual clutch but only have one noticeable clutch engagement point. Has anyone else experienced that?

Is there any way to get an inspection scope in there to look, maybe by removing the starter?

Bern · Sep 6, 2020

I'm sure you could get a borescope into the starter hole and take a peek, as long as you knew what you were looking for. That said, there's
nothing you can do for it without splitting the tractor, so I wouldn't rush out to buy a borescope if you don't already have one.

If the clutch is out of adjustment internally, it is very possible to have the transmission and PTO engaging at the same time. That dual
clutch requires the use of a jig to be properly adjusted.

offgrid · Sep 7, 2020

Thank you for the suggestions.

I did the clutch adjustment yesterday and it made no noticeable difference, the PTO and trans appear to engage at the same time, and the PTO still slips when loaded as before.

I did notice though that the PTO lever does also tend to pop out of gear occasionally as well. Its a little hard to tell because everything is so loose and sloppy. From looking at the manual that is likely to be a separate problem but I'm wondering if that could cause slippage as well and should be tackled before the clutch, or vice versa?

A smartphone based borescope is only about $20 so if there is any doubt its not a big deal to pick one up.

Re the replacement clutch assemblies, all appear to be aftermarket from various sources, have there been reliability problems with them?

offgrid · Sep 9, 2020

Just an update and a question.

After adjusting the clutch linkage and removing the bush hog so I could better see the PTO rotate, its is clear that I do have a two stage clutch. I see two distinct clutch engagement points. The problem is that they are reversed from what they should be, the PTO disengages first and the trans second. This behavior was confusing me into thinking that the PTO sliding coupler was disengaging on its own.

So its clear that my clutch assembly needs to be replaced and a tractor split is needed.

My questions are:

has anyone seen this reverse clutch sequence before? Is it unusual and might be an indication of serious abuse (tractor is new to me)?

how have the aftermarket clutch assemblies been holding up for folks and are there any suppliers recommended to either get or avoid?

Thanks for your suggestions.

Ford 231 PYO Clutch

offgrid

New User

Sean in PA

Well-known Member

Sean in PA

Well-known Member

offgrid

New User

Bern

Well-known Member

offgrid

New User

offgrid

New User

Similar threads