For Bern and Larry NCKS

Ok so with the sos. As soon as I tighten
the bolts for the pump the input shaft
binds looks like the pump is binding it.
I can back the bolts off a 1/4 turn from
the lowest torque spec and the shaft will
spin freely. I have disassembled the pump
all looks good. Any idea why this would
be happening? Seems the pump rotor is in
a bind between the support plate And the
pump housing.
 
The input shaft just moved slightly while
re installing the Adapter plate im
guessing a 1/4". I used rtv to seal the
Adapter plate. 

From Larry:


What did you use for a gasket between the
adapter plate and the transmission case?

From Oldford647986:

I used the existing gasket as it was not
damaged. And I opened the pump but didn't
change anything just inspected for wear
and damage then re assembled. 





-------- Original message --------

From: Larry


What kind of gasket are you using between
the pump and the adapter plate? Did you
have the pump opened up? If so, what may
have changed as you reassembled it?
 

I'm guessing . . . this is just a guess, mind you . . . that the RTV did not hold enough thickness and that you need a proper gasket between the case and the adapter plate.
 
Since you are using the original gasket between the case and the support plate, if the shaft spins freely after you tighten down the support plate, then I can't see how the input shaft could be causing this issue.

That said, I can't see how the pump could be causing this issue either, because it simply splines onto the input shaft. My only suggestion to you is to turn the shaft back and forth as you tighten down the pump bolts slowly in a criss-cross pattern. If it still binds, try doubling up on the pump gasket as a temporary test. If it is free then, now I'm thinking you still have an issue with input shaft location.

Keep us posted.
 
(quoted from post at 08:32:20 08/29/20) Since you are using the original gasket between the case and the support plate

Keith said he used RTV between the adapter plate and transmission case. I thought it showed in the replies to this thread but am not seeing it now. I'm thinking the RTV did not hold enough thickness since his problem occurs just as the bolts are torqued.

He did use the original pump to adapter plate gasket as I read it.

Keith, please correct me if I'm wrong on that undrestanding.
 

Keith copied and email exchange and pasted it in here. For some reason that means it needs to read backwards, bottom quotation to top quotation.
 


Ok guys I ha e checked everything I can and the only thing left I can think of is the thrust washer is out of place. Best idea to get it back into place?
 

If the thrust washer is out of place, that likely means it dropped into the transmission. If that is the problem, it means a tear-down from the rear to get it back in place.
 


Or maybe not I bolted the pump to the support plate just to check while it was put of the tractor and same thing as soon as its snug it locks. So it seems I have either a warped pump or support plate.
 
If he used RTV along with the original gasket, then that can't be the problem. If the thrust washer really did drop down, then it should be
jammed up tight long before the plate bottoms out. And, as I understand it, it's not even the plate that's causing the binding, it's the
pump.

I'm officially at a loss on this one without being able to see and feel it for myself.
 
(quoted from post at 23:41:54 08/31/20) If he used RTV along with the original gasket,

Keith can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm hearing that he used ony RTV here. No original gasket.
 

I used just RTV. original gasket was shot on the adapter plate to case. I am just as stumped because i cant find any reason the pump would lock up like it is. I have however possibly come across another SOS for cheap from a friend he was looking for a 5 speed for me, to swap for the time being, and forgot he had it. I'm trying to get over to his place and look at it in the next week or so.
 
But like i said the input shaft is spinning fine when the adapter plate is bolted to the case. i removed the adapter plate and have bolted the pump to it outside of the tractor where there is nothing to cause
a bind and it's still locking up as soon as its snugged which is why I believe there is a warp.
 
Also 1 other question I believe it will work but just want to double check I have the opportunity to buy a whole parts 601 that just missing the steering box for a few hundred, it has the 134C.I. engine will
that transmission bolt up the the 172C.I. engine in the 4000?
 
if i buy the 601 parts tractor would my select o speed be worth anything as is? or would i be better to try and rebuild it then sell it?
 
This is what I read and had been assuming all along:



From Larry:

What did you use for a gasket between the adapter plate and the transmission case?

From Oldford647986:

I used the existing gasket as it was not damaged. And I opened the pump but didn't change anything just inspected for wear and damage then
re assembled.
 

I will try that but that and see what happens. i think i still may buy the other tractor to swap tranmissions for the time being.
 
(quoted from post at 06:34:27 09/01/20)
I used just RTV. original gasket was shot on the adapter plate to case.

Here ya go Bern. There was nowhere in Keith's and my conversation where the statement/reply sequence you quote is correct.
 
Perhaps, Bern, (and others) the following rendition of the emails between Keith and I will make the connection for you and expose the sequence of questions and answers. Note that the date and time is included in this version.

YT Website Response
Fri, Aug 28, 5:46 PM (4 days ago)
The following message is being sent to you from (Keith) via the Yesterday's Tractor Co. website. It is in response to the contact about a

Larry Ditmars
Fri, Aug 28, 6:31 PM (4 days ago)
What kind of gasket are you using between the pump and the adapter plate? Did you have the pump opened up? If so, what may have changed as you reassembled it?

kkrawczyk14
Fri, Aug 28, 7:08 PM (4 days ago)
I used the existing gasket as it was not damaged. And I opened the pump but didn't change anything just inspected for wear and damage then re assembled. Sent vi

Larry Ditmars
Fri, Aug 28, 7:46 PM (4 days ago)
How far out did you pull the input shaft?

Larry Ditmars
Fri, Aug 28, 7:49 PM (4 days ago)
What did you use for a gasket between the adapter plate and the transmission case?

kkrawczyk14
Fri, Aug 28, 7:53 PM (4 days ago)
to me

The input shaft just mived slightly while re installing the Adapter plate im guessing a 1/4".[b:8562c7d06c] I used rtv to seal the Adapter plate.[/b:8562c7d06c]
 
The way I read it Larry, he re-used the old gasket AND applied RTV on top of it.
cvphoto54832.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 18:08:37 09/01/20) The way I read it Larry, he re-used the old gasket AND applied RTV on top of it.
<img src="https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto54832.jpg">
well, ya read it wrong, Bern! Keith's even said he used RTV between the trans case and the adapter plate a couple times!

Get this trough your head! The quote in the thread you circled is upside down. You've got to to read that reply from the bottom up to make sense of it!

I'm done debating this point with you!
 
(quoted from post at 11:18:19 09/02/20)
(quoted from post at 18:08:37 09/01/20) The way I read it Larry, he re-used the old gasket AND applied RTV on top of it.
<img src="https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto54832.jpg">
well, ya read it wrong, Bern! Keith's even said he used RTV between the trans case and the adapter plate a couple times!

Get this trough your head! The quote in the thread you circled is upside down. You've got to to read that reply from the bottom up to make sense of it!

I'm done debating this point with you!

Except for one more clarification. For Pete's sake, look at the time stamp on each paragraph in the reply thread you want to hang on to. You'll see that the earliest one is on the bottom ad latest on the top!

Now look at it properly, as I've already posted it:
rhaps, Bern, (and others) the following rendition of the emails between Keith and I will make the connection for you and expose the sequence of questions and answers. Note that the date and time is included in this version.

YT Website Response
Fri, Aug 28, 5:46 PM (4 days ago)
The following message is being sent to you from (Keith) via the Yesterday's Tractor Co. website. It is in response to the contact about a

Larry Ditmars
Fri, Aug 28, 6:31 PM (4 days ago)
What kind of gasket are you using between the pump and the adapter plate? Did you have the pump opened up? If so, what may have changed as you reassembled it?

kkrawczyk14
Fri, Aug 28, 7:08 PM (4 days ago)
I used the existing gasket as it was not damaged. And I opened the pump but didn't change anything just inspected for wear and damage then re assembled. Sent vi

Larry Ditmars
Fri, Aug 28, 7:46 PM (4 days ago)
How far out did you pull the input shaft?

Larry Ditmars
Fri, Aug 28, 7:49 PM (4 days ago)
What did you use for a gasket between the adapter plate and the transmission case?

kkrawczyk14
Fri, Aug 28, 7:53 PM (4 days ago)
to me

The input shaft just mived slightly while re installing the Adapter plate im guessing a 1/4"[b:8894b55e10].[color=red:8894b55e10] I used rtv to seal the Adapter plate.[/b:8894b55e10][/color:8894b55e10]
 

I still think that if you had a proper gasket between the adapter plate and transmission case your issue would be gone. I just miked an original new gasket from a 40 year old kit. It mikes to .032 inches or approximately 1/32 inch. That's not a thin gasket, and RTV clamped down might be a third that thick. Then again it might not.
 

thanks ill contact them today. Sorry been out of town for about a week but did pick up and 641 tractor just missing the steering box. going to steel the transmission and axle and trow it on the 4000 until i figure out the SOS.
 

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