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Ford Tractors Discussion Forum
:

positive or negative ground?

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crankyfranky

07-26-2020 10:25:37




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working on my new to me 1963/4 ford 2000 4 cyl tractor and the battery is installed with the negative ground. the coil is also installed for a negative ground system so i think the previous owner may have converted the tractor from Positive to Negative ground for some reason. the charging system appears to be in good condition but isn't charging. the tractor has sat for many many years with a dead battery and probably needs flashed. but since the previous owner passed away many years ago i can't ask him what he was up to and have to figure it out. my question is was there a different voltage regulator for a negative ground system or will the original work either way. my regulator appears to be new and is the three terminal type with field/arm/batt connections. before i proceed to flash the armature to the battery is there anything i need to consider???? Thanks

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crankyfranky

07-27-2020 10:48:21




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 Re: positive or negative ground? in reply to crankyfranky, 07-26-2020 10:25:37  
Thank You JMOR for your help! hopefully this was well enough written to help someone in their search.



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JMOR

07-27-2020 10:33:17




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 Re: positive or negative ground? in reply to crankyfranky, 07-26-2020 10:25:37  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeGlad you got it! Don't know a bulb number, sorry. Yes, Batt to ARM works on both Type-A and Type-B, but I seldom tell people that, because most of the world's people don't know that & only parrot what they have heard,...... I avoid a lot of flack!



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crankyfranky

07-27-2020 09:50:37




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 Re: positive or negative ground? in reply to crankyfranky, 07-26-2020 10:25:37  
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UPDATE... i reconnected to positive ground and reconnected the ignition coil to positive ground. reflashed the generator and still no charge so i made a jumper to cross the batt terminal to the armature terminal at the VR and flashed it that way. now it is charging like new. Thanks for the help!!! a new question now i need a new bulb for the charge indicator.... anyone know what the bulb number is?????

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crankyfranky

07-27-2020 05:39:11




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 Re: positive or negative ground? in reply to crankyfranky, 07-26-2020 10:25:37  
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Thanks JMOR........ will do. i will check back with results



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JMOR

07-26-2020 20:57:24




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 Re: positive or negative ground? in reply to crankyfranky, 07-26-2020 10:25:37  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeNo, no, no...on a "B" type you DO NOT jump Fld to ground for max output.....you apply ARM voltage to FLD for max output.



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crankyfranky

07-26-2020 20:43:23




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 Re: positive or negative ground? in reply to crankyfranky, 07-26-2020 10:25:37  
Thanks again JMOR. tomorrow i will see if the generator will motor. then i will jump the field to ground to see if i can get it to output. i am still on negative ground. do i need to return to positive ground??



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JMOR

07-26-2020 20:33:19




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 Re: positive or negative ground? in reply to crankyfranky, 07-26-2020 10:25:37  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeThe ARM & FLD will only have voltage when engine running & generator making sufficient output to pull the VR's cut out contacts closed, thus connecting ARM to BATT.



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crankyfranky

07-26-2020 20:00:46




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 Re: positive or negative ground? in reply to crankyfranky, 07-26-2020 10:25:37  
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i had some time this evening to check things out a little better. the system is definitely a type B. i have power to the Bat terminal on the VR with the Key off and Key on. the ground wire runs from the generator case back to the corner of the VR the big red wire runs from the ARM terminal on the VR to the big stud on the back of the Generator and the field wire runs from the FLD terminal on the VR to the field terminal on the generator. all wires are good and continuity is fine. even though i have voltage to the bat terminal all the time i DO NOT have voltage to the ARM terminal or wire. it is posible that the tractor was jumped with 12 volts at some time. do i have a faulty VR???

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crankyfranky

07-26-2020 17:02:52




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 Re: positive or negative ground? in reply to crankyfranky, 07-26-2020 10:25:37  
Thanks JMOR. my generator has three terminals. one on the end and two on the side. i assume one of the side terminals is a ground that runs back into the harness. i need to look more closely and see if the case is stamped F for field and G for ground. is this still a type B system? all of the components look new. except the harness



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JMOR

07-26-2020 16:52:50




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 Re: positive or negative ground? in reply to crankyfranky, 07-26-2020 10:25:37  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see



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crankyfranky

07-26-2020 16:43:53




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 Re: positive or negative ground? in reply to crankyfranky, 07-26-2020 10:25:37  
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sorry .... yes it still has the generator.. and yes the ignition coil has been rewired to negative ground. Thanks you all. i will try flashing the system to see if that helps. one more thing......

on this three terminal VR do i need to remove the wire at the VR terminal or can i use a jumper wire to flash and leave the VR connected???

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JMOR

07-26-2020 13:56:16




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 Re: positive or negative ground? in reply to crankyfranky, 07-26-2020 10:25:37  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeIn which case the VR is then just a terminal block and all is just fine. Seen one run like that for >25 years.



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RickB

07-26-2020 16:02:03




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 Re: positive or negative ground? in reply to JMOR, 07-26-2020 13:56:16  
So it would be helpful to know if the tractor has a generator or alternator. Eye roll.



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JMOR

07-26-2020 13:36:32




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 Re: positive or negative ground? in reply to crankyfranky, 07-26-2020 10:25:37  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see...and this didn't give you a clue??? " my regulator appears to be new and is the three terminal type with field/arm/batt connections. " :roll:



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RickB

07-26-2020 13:46:54




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 Re: positive or negative ground? in reply to JMOR, 07-26-2020 13:36:32  
JMOR is that directed at me? I guess you never saw any jackleg 12v conversions where the rocket scientist that performed the surgery left the VR wired in? I can tell you with all certainty that I have. And a high percentage of them get sold shortly thereafter because the perpetrator isnít smart enough to get help. So I think it is a legit question even if you donít approve.



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RickB

07-26-2020 11:55:45




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 Re: positive or negative ground? in reply to crankyfranky, 07-26-2020 10:25:37  
You donít mention whether it has a generator or alternator. If it has an alternator conversion, it is 99% certain to be negative ground.



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David G

07-26-2020 11:00:07




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 Re: positive or negative ground? in reply to crankyfranky, 07-26-2020 10:25:37  
The old regulators did not care about polarity, make sure it has still has a generator on it before doing any flashing. Anything solid state DOES care about polarity. Do make sure the coil polarity matches the battery polarity or you will have a slightly weakened spark.



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JMOR

07-26-2020 10:57:59




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 Re: positive or negative ground? in reply to crankyfranky, 07-26-2020 10:25:37  
On that model, the VR doesn't care neg or pos ground, but because so many people generalize, I will add that there are VRs where polarity does matter.



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