Ouch! 641 Broken Axle (Replaced)

UseFixUse

Member
This happened years ago. I had no time to work on it so I paid someone to locate and install a heavier axle (blue). Now, I need to renew the spindle bushings, etc. in the heavier axle. It looks like it is the "Utility Industrial" axle on page 8 of the I&T manual. I removed both spindles. The dust seals, and bearings are worn out. 1. Do the spindles look like they need to be replaced? 2. Do the axle knees look like they need work or just new bushings? There are some rain drops on the pictures.
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Yes, the spindles are worn some, but it's not like you're gonna be driving this tractor down the freeway.
Put some new bushings in the housings and go.
 
This is my first look at spindles. Is the wear you guys see in the "C" area of the spindle? On a new spindle, would "C" be the same diameter as "D"?
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It looks like it is the "Utility Industrial" axle on page 8 of the I&T manual, which is heavier than the all purpose adjustable one it replaced. Any thoughts? Axle is blue.
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Not everyone has that manual...
If the axle looks like the one in these
photos I would say most folks here call
it a light industrial. CNH parts site
says they were built from 61-64 so they
could be Red or Blue. Parts site also
states that spindles for it are no longer
available.
It does look like upper and lower
spindle bushings are available, as are
the thrust bearings and upper and lower
seals - for about $165 per side.
For the sake of conversation... Spindles
can be repaired if they are badly worn. A
machine shop could build them up with
welding then turn them back to standard
size. Probably cost prohibitive though
and imo totally Not worth it as yours
don't look too bad.
I'm with Bern on this one. Put new
bushings, seals and thrust bearings in it
and be happy. You may not get the 57
years of service that the original ones
gave but you'll get 45 years and that
will be enough.
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would "C" be the same diameter as "D"? ,Yes

It will be sloppy as ell if you use the old worn spindles... Its a bunch of work to end up messy, There use to be a machine shop around that charged $200 a spindle and I can see that. Its your call.

This is just play it took me weeks to do it I was in no hurry weld a little and walk away. If I had a grinder it would speed the process up : )


https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=742884&highlight=spindles

https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1307730&highlight=spindles
 
Thanks for the ideas. It sure gives me options. That s a nice looking tractor. The axle looks a lot like mine. Can anyone tell from my pics if mine is the "Light Industrial" axle? I would need to know the precise ID of the axle in order to get the correct part numbers for bushings, etc.
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(quoted from post at 14:16:16 03/25/20) Thanks. Just what I was looking for. Are you required to create an account on that site before you can see prices?

I don't know if you have to create an account, but I think that you have to plug in your closest New Holland dealer, but I've never done either. You can do what iI do, which is to take the part numbers and plug them in on messicks.com or partspring.com, which are both authorized New Holland dealers that sell parts online.
 
I just go to the parts site at Messicks
and copy the parts numbers down.
Then call my local dealer and give them
the numbers and have them order them.
I ask them to put them in with their next
"house order" and go pick them up when
they come in. No shipping that way.
Messicks lists prices on everything so I
so I have an idea what I'm spending.
My local dealer usually beats Messicks
price by a couple/few bucks.
I do have an account at CNH and my local
dealer Timmers Implement as my store. But
they don't give me prices before I buy so
I rarely log in there.
Fixusefix, if they ask just tell them
it's for a 1963 2000 light industrial.
Mentioning you have that axle grafted
onto a 641 is more apt to confuse things
than help.
 
Will do. Thanks very much to all for getting me pointed in the right direction. The information is very helpful. I will update as the project progresses.
 
It looks like one of the spindles has another issue. The key slot in the spindle has been wallowed so the key does not fit snug. I think that is why that wheel would snow plow a little in reverse. I've looked at archives and see 3 options. 1. Find another good used spindle. 2. See if a machine shop could fill and grind a new slot. 3. Weld the steering arm to the top of the spindle. Any thought or other options?
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The later model 3400s had almost that
same exact axle. I had one that the
bushings were okay but the thrust
bearings were shot.
When I put new bearings in it I found the
same problem as you have.
What I did is brought both the spindle
and steering arm to a machine shop and
they cut a new keyway in the spindle and
broached a new keyway in the steering
arm. I think I had them do it about 60
degrees away from the original one but
it's been 15? years since I had it done
so ask their advice on the placement.
That is a special size woodroof key and
they did not have a milling cutter for
it. So we just milled a straight keyway
and used a 1/4" square key.
They were concerned about getting the
alignment of of the slot on the shaft and
slot on the arm exactly the same as
before but I told them a couple of
degrees one way or another can be
adjusted out with the tie rod adjustment.
I hung around and watched them do it and
both cuts together took about an hour so
it was not to costly to have done.
Looking at your upper spindle it appears
to be more worn than I thought. Can you
post better photos of it? You might ask
them about welding it up and turning it
back to standard as we talked about
before.

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I am waiting on a reply from the machine shop. He seemed concerned about weakening the spindle (cast) from the heat of build-up welding. Meanwhile, I need to ask how the bushings knock out of the axle knees. Is there a stop in the knee between the upper and lower bushing? Does the upper one come out on top and lower on out the bottom?
 

I get a piece of round bar cut and weld to the bushing and drive them out the end not though the middle... On this one I was replacing the spindles so cut the spindle up and welded it to the bushing...

All the fun is installing the bushings : (



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Good info, thanks. While I wait on the spindle decision, I want to repack the front wheel bearings with grease. Before I start tapping on the cover lip(see pic), does it come off by tapping on a screwdriver or chisel around the edge to work it off, like some automotive ones I"ve done? Since it is a light industrial axle and hard to get some parts, I want to be sure I am coaxing it the correct way.
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Mr. U-Dog. If that blue steering/axle in your picture is as good on the inside as it looks on the outside, you have a nice piece piece of machinery. Did you use it or is it for sale?
 
Update on axle/spindle project. I inspected and repacked the wheel bearings, replaced the spindle bushings, thrust bearings, washers & seals. A saws-all helped cut a groove in the old upper bushings to get them out but couldn't get the axle high enough to get the saws-all under the lower bushing. So I hand sawed and used a cape chisel to chibble them out. New bushings went in slow and tight with a copper headed hammer. Didn't bend the bushings but wasted a few flecks of copper.
The spindle that had a sloppy woodruff key slot allowing the steering arm to slip on the spindle was ground to the next larger size key. The key was then machined to fit the cleaned-up slightly enlarged steering arm slot. Works well.
On reassembly, the spindles resisted insertion until I bottle jacked them up so the weight of the tractor, plus a few blows on the top of the spindle housing (copper hammer) eventually brought them home. BTW, I used red Lithium Complex EP grease on the spindles and thrust bearings, then black Moly Lithium 12 Hydroxyl EP grease on the wheel bearings. This is what I had on hand in sufficient quantities. Then after studying greases, ideally, I should have used the Moly grease on the spindles to hedge a little more against wear.
There was one revelation concerning the wallowed spindle woodruff key slot. Upon reassembly, the bolt that tightens the steering arm to the spindle easily stripped. Turns out someone used a coarse thread bolt in the fine thread steering arm. Never was tight enough so it wallowed out the key slot. So I tapped the steering arm for a " fine thread bolt. Works well.
I used the loader a couple of days, raised the front end of the tractor and could not find any play in the spindles. I know they re worn but new ones are not available and no one wanted to weld up and turn them. Said it could weaken them and would be very expensive. So, I am just working with what I have and hope it will last several years of very intermittent use.
I am concerned that the steering arm bolt housings have always rode pretty close to the tires. I do not care to reverse the rims to gain clearance. I would like to find quarter inch thick rim ring spacers for the front wheels. Are spacers (or other alternatives) available for these older tractors? If so, please suggest where.
Next projects will be to check the pivot pin for wear, adjust the tappets and adjust the steering box (power steering) for excessive play. I did spend 2 cents (peened) behind the radius rods which helped some.
Thanks for all the advice and ideas to help get me going.

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