ford 3600 thermosart question

poppy741

New User
my pump went out on my ford 3600 (3 cyl perkins). the original pump had the thermostart fed directly from the side of the pump housing. the only replacement pumps found on online have no thermostart port on the side.
So, the question is....can I plumb it into the return line as others are done with a tee, or can it be deleted all together without issues? hoping you guys can help steer me in the right direction.
 

First thing is Ford didn't use Perkins engines, they made their own.
3600 shouldn't have the line your talking about unless someone has swapped the engine or the fuel system.
I have a 3930 engine that uses that direct feed to the thermostart.
Can you post photos of your tractor.
 
Well I stand corrected about the "perkins " thing. That's what happens when you assume. LOL
I don't know much about the tractor. The guy I bought it from said he bought it from a dealer (new or used I don't know) and he owned it for many years. here's a pic of the ID tag and the pump.
mvphoto53324.jpg


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The tractor is a 3600 all purpose with diesel engine, live 540 pto and 8x2 manual trans.
It has a build date of Feb 9, 1979 on day shift, built in the US.

I'm assuming your talking about that small tube in from of the larger one, my tractors are a bit older and don't have that small tube, also not finding it in the parts book or repair manual for that model, but that doesn't mean it's not correct for yours.
Can you post a wider photo of the entire engine and possibly of the line going to the thermostart.
 

I added the thermostart valve onto my 65 Ford 3000 a while back. I wired accordingly and teed off the return line nearest the radiator. It worked great
 
That foil tag is definitely from a 3600 with a diesel engine, live PTO and an 8 speed transmission that left the assembly line on February 9 1979 during the day shift, but that is not the injection pump that was on it when it left the factory. That style pump with the direct feed to the thermostart wasn't introduced until the "30" series as Destroked has said. It is possible that just the pump was replaced at some point, but I think it is more likely that the engine was replaced with a newer engine at some point and the newer style pump came along for the ride.

Have you had the pump that's on there evaluated to see if it can be rebuilt? That's usually less expensive than replacing the pump.

If you do replace the pump and want the same one, get the numbers off of the pump itself, or figure out what model tractor the engine came off of. Even if you decide to have the pump rebuilt, it's best to know what engine you have so that the rebuilder can look up the proper specs.
 
The pump shaft is broken in the old pump and I bought a new rotor head assembly for what was supposed to fit the 3600 but it of course was not the same. My main concern at this point (after buying a replacement pump) is that even if I re-route the thermostart plumbing, will this pump be adequate for the engine?

Everywhere I look it seems that this engine is not the stock engine for a 3600. does anyone know where I can fine the engine numbers on the block or somewhere so I can cross reference and maybe determine what I'm working with. any help would be appreciated.
 
The block casting number is a set of large raised up letters and numbers that should be on the right side of the block just below the injection pump. It should start with D0NN or D3NN or something like that. There may be a gap after that first part and next should be 6015 followed by possibly another gap and possibly one or two letters. Post that entire number back here and we should be able to help figure out which model tractor that engine was originally made for.
 
OK here's what I found on the block. "NW" is the only raised letters. The block has a long series of numbers stamped into it at the bottom of block.
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here's a pic of the ID tag on the pump. from all I've read and discussed with others, it is not a pump from a stock 3600 tractor engine. Leaves me scratching my head.
mvphoto53400.jpg
 
K587789 is the engine serial number. The K at the beginning means that it was built for the 4100/4110/4130 series of tractors. The 4100 and 4110 had a 183 cu 183 ci engine with 4.2" bore x 4.4" stroke. None of my references are new enough for a 4130, but I believe that it had a 201 ci 4.4" bore x 4.4" stroke engine.

5L16 means the engine was assembled on November 16 of either 1985 or 1995. If it was 1985 then it would be from a 4110. If it was 1995 it would be from a 4130.

The raised webs/ribs on the block make me think that it's probably a 1995 engine, which may or may not make it a 4130 engine, as it may have been a Basildon crate engine.

The 3600 had a 175 ci engine with a 4.2" bore x 4.2" stroke that produced about 5 hp less than the 183 and 10 hp less than the 201. A 3600 pump will work with either engine but you won't get as much hp as you would if you had the proper pump for whichever engine you have. Whatever pump you end up using, if it doesn't have the separate port for the thermostart line, then you can tee into the return line going from the injectors back to the tank.
 
Sean, thanks so much for your feedback. I'm not sure when this tractor got it's upgrade but it's starting to make a little more sense why I can't get parts to match up.
As i have looked this engine over, I found that it is a New Holland motor and there are several numbers on the other side of the block.which gives a little more info. I think at this point I'm going to return this pump and get the right one for this engine...maybe, if they have one....and see if we can't get this thing going again
 
There are several people on this forum that rebuild those pumps for a living and/or a side job, and hopefully one of them will chime in based on the numbers on the pump sticker as to what is the proper pump for that engine, or if they might have the parts to be able to repair your existing pump.
 

After doing some looking the direct feed to the thermostart on that pump looks like the one on my 3930 engine, my line is slightly different but it's a late 96 model.
The 30 series engines are the only ones I know of the have that setup.
It that engine is a 183 it's a bit of a odd ball with the smaller 4.2 bore of a 175, but has the 4.4 stroke of a 201, good engine with more torque than a 175 but only used in a few models.
If it's a BSD replacement there should be a decal on the valve cover, probably on the exhaust manifold side.

Sean is correct that the engine was built Nov 16 1985 or 95, with web block, NH casting logo and that injection pump I'm going to say 95.
 

Correction: Farther search shows the 183 was only used in the 4100, the 4110 and 4130 used the 201 engine.
Also the only 3 cylinder engines I can find used on the 30 series were the 192 and 201.
Found a 3930 inj pump on eBay but sticker shock of $1800+ was scary, may want to see if you can get yours rebuilt.
There is a pump for a 4630 listed on eBay for $900 that has the correct fittings.
 
With the info provided with other block numbers (on the left side) I have determined that it is a 4.4" bore and a 4.4" stroke, so i'm guessing that it is a 95 model engine from a 4130 possibly. I was told that the pump ID tag number (3338F890) was a match for a 4130.
I've already bought the (3338F380) pump from these guys at Yesterdays so I think I'll use it and reroute the plumbing. I know I'll lose a little HP but I can handle that.
Maybe since these (890) pumps are so high, I'll put my pile of parts up for sale as parts for someone else's rebuild project. You never can tell what someone might need. :)
 
I'm gonna speculate that you are correct on all except the model of the original donor tractor!
I'm going to go out on a limb, and suggest that the original donor tractor was an early 1995 4630, as the 4130 was built only in 1990 & 1991
 

Your going to have some minor plumbing issues but whatever you do don't mess up that return line from the top of the pump to the injectors, it has the wrong fitting for the pump you what to install and is difficult to find.
I'd buy that one if it's not broke.
 
I'm not sure I will even bother to plumb the thermostart in. I'm in NW Ga so a quick shot of Start fluid does the trick around here on really cold days.
The pump shaft, as I posted before, is broken. when I drove it out of the rotor head, it scarred the inside walls of the head. It might be salvageable but I'm not sure. the rest of the pump is in good shape ,but in pieces and I have a new rebuild kit that I bought that goes with it. If someone is interested...call me at my shop (Wayne @ 706-629-6900) and make a reasonable offer. Please don't waste our time with lowball offers.Thanks
 

I wasn't talking about the thermostart line, I was talking about the fuel return line that runs from the pump up to the injectors and up to the fuel tank.
You'll need the return line from a older tractor with the banjo fitting that fits the older pump your going to use, you'll probably be able to get it to work on the newer style flat top injectors that engine will have.
 

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