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Ford Tractors Discussion Forum
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3930 Rod Bolt torque

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Ultradog MN

03-28-2020 18:34:15




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Trying to help a friend out.
I know they used bolts and not nuts but I don't own a manual for that new of a machine.
Anyone have those specs?
Thanks.




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Ultradog MN

03-29-2020 17:14:40




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 Re: 3930 Rod Bolt torque in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-28-2020 18:34:15  
Always something new to learn on these Fords.
Thanks to all.



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Billy NY

03-30-2020 09:05:52




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 Re: 3930 Rod Bolt torque in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-29-2020 17:14:40  
Try from pc, they won't post right no matter how I rotate on pc, for whatever reason, you cannot take photos in "Portrait" and post here and have them orientate the same way. If I take them in "Landscape" you may not be able to read. Save them to your PC and rotate to read easier. Note the information I pointed out. These manuals cover 30 series, with information from previous manuals for older series back to 10 & 00 series.

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Billy NY

03-30-2020 09:11:23




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 Re: 3930 Rod Bolt torque in reply to Billy NY, 03-30-2020 09:05:52  
Try in landscape



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Bern

03-30-2020 15:48:15




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 Re: 3930 Rod Bolt torque in reply to Billy NY, 03-30-2020 09:11:23  
Your reference to the bolt in this image is in regards to the main cap, not the rod cap.



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Billy NY

03-30-2020 16:20:52




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 Re: 3930 Rod Bolt torque in reply to Bern, 03-30-2020 15:48:15  
That is what I was wondering, they don't seem to tell you in these manuals do they ?



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Billy NY

03-30-2020 08:46:05




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 Re: 3930 Rod Bolt torque in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-29-2020 17:14:40  
Jerry, Late, and I'd want Bern to comment, this is what I found in my manuals. This was bugging me, seeing you may not have these manuals.
I'm going to test 1st photo,,the cover, see if orietates right as taken



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Bern

03-30-2020 15:46:57




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 Re: 3930 Rod Bolt torque in reply to Billy NY, 03-30-2020 08:46:05  
Billy,

I can see from all of the pencil pointing in your images that you seemed to be concerned about the large discrepancy in the torque values for the connecting rod. And rightly so. You did everything right with regards to the research into this. Problem is, even manufacturers make mistakes in their manuals, and this is one example. Ford (NH) failed to note in the manual the change over from nuts to bolts on the con rods. Ford was never one to be overly concerned about technical accuracy IMHO. Not like Deere anyway.

While a 3930 is essentially a glorified 3910, there is a big difference between a rod that uses a nut versus one that uses a bolt. If memory serves, I believe the nut is 7/16", and the bolt is 1/2", but don't quote me on that. Check out the link below. It is for a 7610 which shows both the nut as well as the bolt style rod. Note that the parts book doesn't differentiate between the two as far as the production date goes. Nice, huh?

Below is an image from the Genesis repair manual, which uses the exact same part number bolt as the 3930 and is to be torqued to 110 ft lbs, which is about right for a 1/2" bolt.

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Billy NY

03-30-2020 19:24:00




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 Re: 3930 Rod Bolt torque in reply to Bern, 03-30-2020 15:46:57  
Yes, exactly, no doubt about the 2 values for each type of fastening, nut vs bolt on this component of an engine.
Entirely true, I have found this to be true of many manufacturers to varying degrees. For the most part, OEM manuals are typically invaluable, but none are ever perfect. I like when they do issue the bulletins and or correct the later manuals, then correspond same to start and end serial number runs. Caterpillar always did this, but even they would leave out something important, like timing their 2 cylinder starting engines, they give you the firing order, but never tell you what piston is actually #1 of the 2, for a tractor they made almost 30,000 of LOL ! Of course you have a 50/50 chance on that, easy to figure out, but comical just the same. It's the technicians and true mechanics that get to the bottom of it. I can't imagine how many of this era Ford you have overhauled, but thought it worth a shot and a challenge to see if I could find something accurate. Very interesting detail on this at the least and I'd hate to get that value wrong on a re-assemble, especially on a crank assembly. Glad you chimed in on my post, like Jerry said, "always something to learn on these Fords"

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Bern

03-30-2020 21:25:56




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 Re: 3930 Rod Bolt torque in reply to Billy NY, 03-30-2020 19:24:00  
This issue is becoming less of a problem nowadays since most manufacturers are putting all of their service info online. This of course means that they can update their information daily if they need to, and is now my go-to source of info if I'm working on a Cummins engine or similar.



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Sean in PA

03-29-2020 12:22:05




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 Re: 3930 Rod Bolt torque in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-28-2020 18:34:15  
I agree with Bern... use the generic spec if the manufacturer doesn't list their own, but most manufacturers will spec a specific value/range for critical things like head bolts, rod bolts, etc. that are usually different than the generic spec for the grade & size of the fastener being used.



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Bern

03-29-2020 06:27:45




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 Re: 3930 Rod Bolt torque in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-28-2020 18:34:15  
Jerry, I do not have a manual for that engine, however I do have a manual for the Genesis engines which use the exact same part number bolt for the connecting rod. These engines were also built during the same time frame and likely in the very same plant as the 3930 engine was, so I gotta assume it's the same. The spec by the way is 110 ft lbs.

You can verify the commonality between engines by clicking on the link below for the Genesis engine - the rod bolt is #7. When you go into the manual for the 3930, the part number and reference number for the bolt are identical.

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Tim PloughNman Daley

03-29-2020 05:38:49




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 Re: 3930 Rod Bolt torque in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-28-2020 18:34:15  
DogMan-
It doesn't matter if a nut or bolt. Torque value is spec'd by SIZE of fastener, material/grade, and tensile strength. See link from LH menu, Research & Info.


Tim Daley(MI)



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Bern

03-29-2020 06:32:25




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 Re: 3930 Rod Bolt torque in reply to Tim PloughNman Daley, 03-29-2020 05:38:49  
I would agree with you for common fasteners, but not for something as critical as a rod bolt or nut. As an example, I once looked up the spec for the u-bolt nuts on the front spring shackle of a semi truck. The manufacturer's spec and the generic spec was quite different, and of course it's a very critical fastener. The nuts on most spring shackle u-bolts are "tall nuts", which require more torque than a similar diameter standard nut.

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strum456

03-28-2020 20:18:49




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 Re: 3930 Rod Bolt torque in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-28-2020 18:34:15  
I just checked my factory Ford manual that covers 345, 445 and 545 industrial tractors. They all have 201s and were made around the same time.

80 Ft*lbs for connecting rod nuts.



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Ultradog MN

03-29-2020 04:57:30




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 Re: 3930 Rod Bolt torque in reply to strum456, 03-28-2020 20:18:49  
Thanks but the late engines didn't use nuts. They used bolts. Need the torque for the bolt type.
Anybody?



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Robert (ID)

03-29-2020 09:30:38




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 Re: 3930 Rod Bolt torque in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-29-2020 04:57:30  
UD check your mail...

But im with bern on this.. I had the same problem on the 268 i'm building.the change from stud and nut to flange bolt did change the torque spec.. Check the head bolts too.. when they changed the rod bolts the head bolts got bigger too.. again changing the torque spec..



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Bern

03-29-2020 10:21:54




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 Re: 3930 Rod Bolt torque in reply to Robert (ID), 03-29-2020 09:30:38  
The head bolts went from 1/2" to 9/16" long before the rod caps went from nuts to bolts.



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