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Order Ford 4000 Parts Online

New Question on Ford 4000 cat1 vs cat2

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FarmerBlair

02-22-2020 20:24:23




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These questions are regarding that 1968 Ford 4000 tractor I described in a previous topic I posted today. Did the tractor have an option to be cat1 or cat2?

I noticed when hooking up the bush hog to test the hyd lift that the rocker where the top link attached to the tractor was a category 2. But the buyer had installed used replacement lower lift arms which were cat 1.

Looking at the NH parts store it appears the lift arms are cat1, but this website sells both cat1 and cat2 lower lift arms for the Ford 4000. The New Holland store doesn't specify whether the rocker is cat1 or cat2.

I'm confused at this point, but I figure I could just use bushings to reduce down to cat 1 on the rocker as all my implements are cat 1. But among other things I'm wondering if this tractor should have cat2 lower lift arms since the rocker is cat 2? The seller didn't say anything about the rocker being original or not.

Also, it occurs to me now that the mower (the seller's) seemed pretty tight to the rear wheels. Maybe those lift arms are shorter than original equipment. Looking at parts on this site, the 4000 uses 34-35" long lift arms. I guess I'll have to buy longer lift arms if the ones on the tractor are short, and figure out if can the get right length whether it be cat1, or cat2.

A bigger concern is: will I have a problem with width of some cat 1 implements being too narrow (left to right) for attaching to this tractor? I don't know if cat 2 implements are wider in general. If so, is there a simple way to adapt?

Thanks

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Destroked 450

02-23-2020 12:08:39




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 Re: New Question on Ford 4000 cat1 vs cat2 in reply to FarmerBlair, 02-22-2020 20:24:23  
The arms on my 4000SU are like that, unhooked from the tiller one day, pulled forward and backed up to the box blade setting beside the tiller, got off the hook up and both balls had fell out.



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Destroked 450

02-23-2020 12:01:47




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 Re: New Question on Ford 4000 cat1 vs cat2 in reply to FarmerBlair, 02-22-2020 20:24:23  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

If those would fit I'd put them in and weld a washer on the side to keep them from falling out, can't say how many lift arm balls we've lost over the years.



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FarmerBlair

02-23-2020 11:26:14




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 Re: New Question on Ford 4000 cat1 vs cat2 in reply to FarmerBlair, 02-22-2020 20:24:23  
Forgot the pic for the ball on ebay.



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Texasmark1

02-23-2020 11:47:40




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 Re: New Question on Ford 4000 cat1 vs cat2 in reply to FarmerBlair, 02-23-2020 11:26:14  
I doubt you can get that thing in the arm. The procedure is to move the clip out of the way on the free side. Rotate the ball to the horizontal position snd it will slide right out......lift arm is grooved for this purpose. Insert the desired ball, rotate to the vertical position, push the snap ring over against the arm and you are ready to go. I like to put a flat washer on after the arm before putting the clip in the lift pin....just to ensure that the ball doesn't come out.

Mounting the clip isn't hard. There is a boss in the lift arm for the fingers of the clip, one sticks into either side of the boss. Being offset, like clips are make it spring loaded to keep it in place once installed.

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FarmerBlair

02-23-2020 11:21:24




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 Re: New Question on Ford 4000 cat1 vs cat2 in reply to FarmerBlair, 02-22-2020 20:24:23  
Ultradog,

How do pop the ball out of the lift arm? I found this universal ball (cat1 and cat2) on ebay for $18 and looks like it comes with some sort of wire clip. Is this what would work with the lift arm you posted a pic of?



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Ultradog MN

02-23-2020 12:03:56




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 Re: New Question on Ford 4000 cat1 vs cat2 in reply to FarmerBlair, 02-23-2020 11:21:24  
My 3000 lift arms are convertible but dont have the crab claws.
You just turn the ball outward a quarter turn and they slip out. I have new clips for it somewhere but have never gotten roundtoit and put them on. Without the clips you need to learn to always take the balls and put them in the tool box or you'll lose them.
BTDT
PS, don't buy the type of ball you show in the photo. They are too wide to get the linch pins in.

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Sean in PA

02-23-2020 10:38:33




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 Re: New Question on Ford 4000 cat1 vs cat2 in reply to FarmerBlair, 02-22-2020 20:24:23  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

The 3 cylinder Ford 4000 had those detachable lower link arms with interchangeable balls when it was first introduced in 1965, and both Category 1 and Category 2 balls were available at that time and Ford called them that. So it seems odd that Ford was selling them and calling them category 1 and category 2 balls if "hitch categories did not arrive on the scene until the '70's."

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Ultradog MN

02-23-2020 11:17:36




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 Re: New Question on Ford 4000 cat1 vs cat2 in reply to Sean in PA, 02-23-2020 10:38:33  
Sean,
I'd say you're right.
Maybe even earlier than 65.
When did the 6000s come out - 60 or 61?
I don't know for sure but am guessing those at 60+ HP weren't sold as a Cat I tractor.



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Fordfarmer

02-23-2020 11:41:06




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 Re: New Question on Ford 4000 cat1 vs cat2 in reply to Ultradog MN, 02-23-2020 11:17:36  
Right - the 6000 came out in '61, and was a category II 3-point.



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Gaspump

02-23-2020 09:33:47




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 Re: New Question on Ford 4000 cat1 vs cat2 in reply to FarmerBlair, 02-22-2020 20:24:23  
It was neither as hitch categories did not arrive on the scene until the 70's.



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Destroked 450

02-23-2020 07:36:13




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 Re: New Question on Ford 4000 cat1 vs cat2 in reply to FarmerBlair, 02-22-2020 20:24:23  
The pull ring style flex link lift arms are like in UD's photo where used from 65-mid 70, after mid 70 they they changed to the side lever style.

Regular non flex link arms where available for the 4000 but I normally only see them on the smaller tired 4000SU models, they are shorter than the flex link style, to my knowledge all 4000 lift arms had interchangeable balls for Cat 1 or Cat 2 use, the center rocker only came Cat 2.

TSC and other farm stores carry top links that are Cat2 on one end and Cat 1 on the other, I have a number of top links to inner change depending on which tractor I use and the implement.

The longer flex links on my 4000 require a longer top link, my 4000SU has shorter non flex link arms and requires a shorter top link, I have Cat 2 and combination Cat 1 and 2 top links for both tractors, the long top links also work on my 5000, 6600 and 6610.

If your 4000 has 30 or 38" wheels it needs the longer lift arms.

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Ultradog MN

02-23-2020 00:47:47




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 Re: New Question on Ford 4000 cat1 vs cat2 in reply to FarmerBlair, 02-22-2020 20:24:23  
I saw the lift arms in the photos you posted in your other thread and was going to comment on them but didn't. The seller put lift arms from a Utility or Industrial model when he switched out the fork lift.
Do yourself a favor and find a set of original lift arms from an all purpose (ag) model. To begin with they are a bit longer than the ones you have. Next, it takes just seconds to pop the balls out to change from cat 1 to cat 2.
Last and best though is they have flexible ends on them. You pull a ring up and can then slide them out about 3-4" and raise them up and down about 3-4".
Makes it MUCH easier to connect to an implement as you don't have to be so precise backing up to the pins.
Once you're hooked either back up a tad or raise the implement up to full height and they lock back into place.
I call them crab claws and think they're the best invention since the 3 point itself.


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Billy NY

02-23-2020 06:15:29




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 Re: New Question on Ford 4000 cat1 vs cat2 in reply to Ultradog MN, 02-23-2020 00:47:47  
The type you have shown us in the photos, is that an earlier or different type ? I've seen these on 5000's, and or other models with the ring type release and triangular part on top of them. Was always wondering what the deal was.

I had thought that all 3 cylinder 4000's came with these, but figured someone would confirm, thought maybe the early models might have been different.

The type on my much later model 4630, just have a side lever and different hardware, spring etc., to accomplish the same thing and like you say, these solve alignment with implement problems when hooking up, like no other lift arm can. That and the multi-hole tube stabilizers on these later tractors. Whoever thought that turnbuckles like are found on so many late model compacts would be useful, are sadly mistaken by miles. You can't get a better factory arrangement for lift arms than something like these.

The spring clip that holds the lift arm balls in, are not so easy to install, but seem to work well, to retain them if not deformed or otherwise damaged, some say to remove the balls when not in use or lose them.

Just a few days ago, I took off the heavy duty McConnell back blade I use now as my 2nd line of defense for snow removal, and put the nice set of 3 pt forks I have back on. I added thick tube steel to make a top link mast, the tube is pinned with 1" bolts to the universal brackets, ( meant for any loader with 1" pins - DuAL universal forks by Woods Brothers ) so the darned back guard that does pivot is very heavy, mind you can be moved, but awkward and heavy when trying to hook up to the lift arms. If I do not stage these on 8" blocks, getting the tractor and arms precisely located can be difficult. I had this on a pallet, not high enough, but those flex links, completely solved the problem, made it easy to put the 1" pins through. The mast I added, along with the holes in the bracket, I set up to be a true Category II geometry for this implement, lift arm pins and holes in bracket are 1", so it was just the mast that needed to match up, came out great and these are the only 2 implements I would use in the winter, are both Cat II, so I don't even have to change balls, but the back blade does have a different size top link mast hole, I use a thinner top link Cat I to Cat II bushing (a common copper pipe size works perfect). I need to order that size in steel from McMaster-Carr.

Just a rave about these flex links, very useful !

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Texasmark1

02-23-2020 05:10:54




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 Re: New Question on Ford 4000 cat1 vs cat2 in reply to Ultradog MN, 02-23-2020 00:47:47  
Say Mr. Dog, sir, know of any place one could buy those to weld onto existing arms, or arms containing a movable link on the end in Cat II, tractor 3910?

My 6530 Branson has them and as you said, worth their weight in gold. I currently have Pat's Cat II Quick Hitches on the arms currently but worry that a 900# drum mower out in the mow position would be a bit much to expect Pats to hold correctly for any length of time, especially in rough terrain.

Possibly All States Ag parts has them.

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FarmerBlair

02-22-2020 21:43:29




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 Re: New Question on Ford 4000 cat1 vs cat2 in reply to FarmerBlair, 02-22-2020 20:24:23  
Yes, I was thinking about doing just that. Switch out one end of a cat 1 toplink with the end of a cat2.



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Billy NY

02-22-2020 21:13:54




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 Re: New Question on Ford 4000 cat1 vs cat2 in reply to FarmerBlair, 02-22-2020 20:24:23  
The top link pin size on my much later model 4630 is like that, you should be able to get a top link with the different size ends, or so I would think.



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