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Ford Tractors Discussion Forum
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Ford Commander

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Dieseltech

11-29-2019 13:32:37




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I have the cylinder head off the 242 diesel, looks like the some of the valves are too deep in the head. I have the 6000 original service book, but not one for the Commander series. My book does not say anything where the valves should be in relation to the head surface, exhausts are .015-.030 below now, and intakes are .080-.090 below. Head has been apart before as I found two valve springs on wrong, close wound coils next to the retainers instead of head. Planning on having valve seats installed to bring valves back closer to flush, but would like to know what the new spec was. Old head gasket checked .035 thick, and pistons have valve reliefs .070 deep. Thanks in advance.

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Bern

12-01-2019 15:36:07




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 Re: Ford Commander in reply to Dieseltech, 11-29-2019 13:32:37  
I just looked up the specs in PROSIS. They call for .059 - .084" recession for the 6000 engine, and .005 above - .010" below for the 172 head. My machinist had them all sitting at about flush after I got it back, and it works just fine. Clearly the first spec is wrong (it's actually the correct spec for a 5000 head).



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Dieseltech

12-01-2019 18:01:36




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 Re: Ford Commander in reply to Bern, 12-01-2019 15:36:07  
Thanks, Bern! Another question, the 6000 diesel crankshaft I have out shows enough wear it needs turned which Ford says not to on the 172 and 242 diesel cranks. The local engine shop has re-ground some 172 diesel cranks .010-.010 pre customer request in the past understanding the shop would not cover any failure, and so far none have failed. If I understand correctly, Nitrided cranks have deeper heat treated journals than Tuffrided cranks do. Would you know which treatment was used by Ford? And do you know if any 242 cranks have been ground and used anyway? I have two other engines to take down and see if the cranks are better first before I decide which way to go. The crank I have out now would clean up fine at .010-.010. Thanks again!

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Bob N.Y.

12-02-2019 05:19:44




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 Re: Ford Commander in reply to Dieseltech, 12-01-2019 18:01:36  
I had a 6000 diesel years ago. I had 2 crankshafts in it that had been turned in the .020 to .040 range if I remember correctly. They both broke between the #3 main and #5 rod. The first one went while I was chopping and was a clean square break. The second one broke when I was moving an empty wagon with the engine barely above an idle. It was a messy twisted break. I got another crank that was turned .010, put it in and sold the tractor. I heard it was still running a year later.

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showcrop

11-30-2019 05:02:32




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 Re: Ford Commander in reply to Dieseltech, 11-29-2019 13:32:37  
I have a 172 that had valves recessed badly enough that the shop sourced some Chevy valves to bring them back out so that I would have good compression.



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Dieseltech

11-30-2019 05:23:28




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 Re: Ford Commander in reply to showcrop, 11-30-2019 05:02:32  
I did that same thing on the Standard 23C diesel head, they were sunk DEEP. I found some larger Deutz valves that were machined to fit, getting all valves flush with the head surface.



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Bern

11-29-2019 14:24:52




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 Re: Ford Commander in reply to Dieseltech, 11-29-2019 13:32:37  
There are no specs for what you're looking for in the factory repair manual. I looked in some PROSIS software (it's what machine shops use) and it said (I'm going off of memory here) something like .050 to .060" valve recession. I knew this couldn't be right because my valves were all less than .020" below, with most of them closer to zero.

I took the head down to my local trusted machinist, and he agreed with me that the PROSIS specs could not be correct. He then looked up specs for a 172" diesel, which is the 4-cylinder equivalent of the 242 diesel engine. Again, I don't recall the exact number, but it was much closer to flush. He used the 172" specs (he had to replace some seats) and everything worked out great.

I can look up the exact numbers for you the next time I'm at the shop, but any good machinist can look them up in PROSIS as well.

By the way, FWIW, there is no "Commander" repair manual that I am aware of. The differences between Commander tractors and the older ones are primarily cosmetic. Many of the pages in my manual date back to 1961 and 1963.

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Dieseltech

11-29-2019 14:35:53




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 Re: Ford Commander in reply to Bern, 11-29-2019 14:24:52  
Thanks, Bern. I'll have the intake seats installed at least. Looks like both the intake valves and seats were ground plenty to get them that low, compared to where the exhausts are now.



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