FORD 5000 SOS PROBLEM

Okanogan

New User
I want to thank you for any replies and help in advance. New here and someone suggested I post this in this forum instead of where I posted it at first. I've searched the archives but haven't located our problem. My Ford diesel 5000 with SOS started giving us transmission problems today. We have both Reverse 1 & 2, but none of the 10 forward gears although it seems to slightly grab in 10th. Never gave us issues before. No metal in the oil. Filter looked decent. The manuals I have so far haven't been a huge help. I knew my Jubilee inside and out but this one is fairly new to me and it seems these SOS are a little complicated. Thank you!

Location: Eastern Washington state
 
Others may have a systematic method of narrowing down the possibilities, but I'll mention that when I was having issues with a 981 SOS I found the screen (where you drain the fluid) had started to deteriorate and was releasing bits of itself which were lodging in the control valve assembly, causing the valves to stick.

For you to lose all forward gears at once but not reverse suggests to me a control valve issue.
 
Larry, thank you. I know you are one of or the top guy on these from reading posts all night long. Can I ask if your certainty level is 100%? You've probably seen these a few times. Those are repairs I wouldn't feel comfortable doing myself here and would want to ship it out to be done so before making that call I thought I'd ask. Thank you sir-
 
(quoted from post at 08:58:27 11/16/19) Larry, thank you. I know you are one of or the top guy on these from reading posts all night long. Can I ask if your certainty level is 100%? You've probably seen these a few times. Those are repairs I wouldn't feel comfortable doing myself here and would want to ship it out to be done so before making that call I thought I'd ask. Thank you sir-

When I spoke to Page Implement in VA, one of the highly recommended repair shops I've found reading through SOS threads, he was certain splines were not the issues because I had both reverse and would have nothing if splines were an issue. Would that not also apply to the main shaft? I came across the troubleshooting guide on Arthur's tractors last night (although the manuals I've found I don't offer this trouble shooting guide) that agreed with you- splines or main shaft. But the VA gentlemen's perspective made sense to me. If it's too in depth I need to send it out but want to make sure it is before doing a double split on a tractor as winter approaches with no shop to work in around. Thank you again for everyone's input. I appreciate it so much.
 
(quoted from post at 10:58:27 11/16/19) Larry, thank you. I know you are one of or the top guy on these from reading posts all night long. Can I ask if your certainty level is 100%? You've probably seen these a few times. Those are repairs I wouldn't feel comfortable doing myself here and would want to ship it out to be done so before making that call I thought I'd ask. Thank you sir-

As near as one can get without tearing into it.
 
I suspect the fellow in VA was confusing the mainshaft with the input shaft. Input shaft spline and/or
torque limiting clutch failures are fairly common in SOS transmissions, and that's likely what he was
thinking about.

As you can see from the troubleshooting chart, a mechanical failure of some sort is indicated based on
your symptoms. At a minimum your tractor will have to be split once behind the transmission and have most
of the guts removed to get to the root of the problem. And if you're that far, you'd be a fool not to
split it behind the engine as well to assess the condition of the input shaft and torque limiting splines.

I live in western WA. If you are interested, I would entertain the notion of working on it for you if you
wanted to haul it over the mountains. I did a 5000 SOS two years ago for another member here, and he's
still speaking with me :) In fact, he plans to bring his 8000 up soon for tranny work.

Be advised that finding parts will take almost as much time as doing the actual work, and that would all
be on you and not me. The other fellow that I mentioned might chime in and help you with some ideas on
locating parts.
cvphoto42095.jpg
 

I've got a 5000 SOS trans but it's been setting for many years, don't know anything about it has the tractor was not running when we bought it for parts.
Just saying it could have some good hard parts.
 
(quoted from post at 11:53:48 11/16/19) I suspect the fellow in VA was confusing the mainshaft with the input shaft. Input shaft spline and/or
torque limiting clutch failures are fairly common in SOS transmissions, and that's likely what he was
thinking about.

As you can see from the troubleshooting chart, a mechanical failure of some sort is indicated based on
your symptoms. At a minimum your tractor will have to be split once behind the transmission and have most
of the guts removed to get to the root of the problem. And if you're that far, you'd be a fool not to
split it behind the engine as well to assess the condition of the input shaft and torque limiting splines.

I live in western WA. If you are interested, I would entertain the notion of working on it for you if you
wanted to haul it over the mountains. I did a 5000 SOS two years ago for another member here, and he's
still speaking with me :) In fact, he plans to bring his 8000 up soon for tranny work.

Be advised that finding parts will take almost as much time as doing the actual work, and that would all
be on you and not me. The other fellow that I mentioned might chime in and help you with some ideas on
locating parts.
<img src="https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto42095.jpg">

Thank you! I appreciate that. Where are you located at? I'm sure we could get it to you. Cost isn't a huge issue, I'm going to pass this along to my son when he gets to be 18 but just total ball park- get me within $1,000.00- what do you think it would cost to break down (do a double split (with a loader attached). I'm sure my father, a retired mechanic would be happy to run down the parts for you if you could communicate to him what is needed.

He just dropped the pan and I will try to post a pick (not sure how) of what we found. one o-ring, copper wire and some type of washer (thrust washer?).

Thank you again-[/img]
 
I'm the guy Bern refers to as "fellow"; just sounds so old. We went through one 5000 SOS transmission completely and I had parts coming from all over
the US and even from the UK. It takes alot of effort and money, but I compiled a spreadsheet of parts and interchanges where I could find them. I'll
be happy to share any information I have. Bern also helped me with a second 5000 SOS that had a bad control valve. He's a great guy and super-
knowledgeable Ford mechanic. Your project would be in good hands if you decide to work with him. I have two 5000 SOS diesels I use for making hay
and I can't think of a better rig for my operation. If you like what the tractor can/has done for you, I vote to fix it.
 

Dopp Creek,
Thank you so much. I'm a self taught mechanic. My dad a retired mechanic didn't want me turning wrenches for a living and I stayed out of the shop but I became a homesteader and living as far out as we do I have become my own mechanic (and plumber, and electrician and you name it) but I'm a little out of my league on this SOS transmission. Love the tractor and will keep it in the family for sure. It will get fixed one way or another. If there is anything you want to pass along info wise I would love to have it. Email is: [email protected]
Thank you sir-
 
(quoted from post at 12:44:47 11/16/19)
Dopp Creek,
Thank you so much. I'm a self taught mechanic. My dad a retired mechanic didn't want me turning wrenches for a living and I stayed out of the shop but I became a homesteader and living as far out as we do I have become my own mechanic (and plumber, and electrician and you name it) but I'm a little out of my league on this SOS transmission. Love the tractor and will keep it in the family for sure. It will get fixed one way or another. If there is anything you want to pass along info wise I would love to have it. Email is: [email protected]
Thank you sir-

Just want to thank everyone again for all their help and wisdom offered. So appreciative.

Bern, if your still willing & if we do transport and running down of parts and I could get the very toughest of estimates- whether you think it s going to take $3k or $5k for example just total ballpark- I d love to have you do this. My father has the ability but no longer a shop space for such a large project and I don t have either!

One last long shot question- a diesel 4400 sos wouldn t fit my diesel 5000 sos would it?
 
A 4400 is a 3-cylinder, and the 5000's
SOS is bigger, heavier, and has different
ratios than the smaller models.
 
(quoted from post at 12:44:47 11/16/19)
One last long shot question- a diesel 4400 sos wouldn t fit my diesel 5000 sos would it?

No. It would not. The SOS in a 5000 is unique. For one thing, the PTO clutch in the 5000 is not part of the SOS. All other SOS transmissions contain the PTO clutch. For another, the control valve in the 5000 SOS is on the bottom. All others are on top.

Not that there's anything wrong with other SOS transmissions, but the 5000 SOS is the cream of the SOS crop.
 
Those parts laying on the bottom of the cover are a sign of likely countershaft bearing failure. The round
metal part looks like a part of a ball bearing cage.
 
(quoted from post at 08:46:37 11/17/19) Those parts laying on the bottom of the cover are a sign of likely countershaft bearing failure. The round
metal part looks like a part of a ball bearing cage.

Thank you all for your additional help, I figured as much with the 4400 but wanted to verify.

I can send you a photo of the piece of metal closer up if that would be helpful in identifying the debris (we saved it all for inspection for whoever goes through this also). Can I ask what the copper "wire" was from? That threw me. Maybe clutch?

I replied to your email Bern, let me know if it comes through. Sometimes my hughes satellite email gets rejected and kicked back.

Have a great Sunday everyone. Sure wish I would of known about this forum when I had my Jubliee. It would have saved me some troubles!
 

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