Ford 2000 starter problems

Hi:

I have problems with my Ford 2000 SU, diesel. When turning the key, I sometimes hear rapid (multiple times per second) clicks. I can't place where that comes from. I sometimes hear one click that sounds
like the solenoid engaging, but nothing else.

I took the battery to a couple of shops and had them load test the battery. Both places said it was fine.

I'm pretty sure I have the 5" starter.

Two questions:

1) Any idea where I should start looking for the issue?
2) Is there any way to "hotwire" and bypass the solenoid to try and turn over the motor so that I can get it running for today and finish my project before the rains come in? The pos cable is hooked to the
solenoid, and the neg cable is hooked to the starter, and I can't figure out any way to get starter current directly into the starter motor, without going through the solenoid.

Much appreciated.

Start with the battery and cables. Check the charge and make sure ALL the cable connections are clean and tight.

Yeah, I did the battery and cables.

Cleaned the posts and terminals, cleaned the connections at the starter.
Did a load test on the battery, and I'm told it's fine.
Measured no resistance on the cables, using my ohmmeter.

The symptoms seem like low current to the starter, but I don't seem how it can be, given the above.

Did you check the resistance in the cables while cranking? They most always show near zero by themselves. Connect your voltmeter to both ends of the cable so it's in parallel. Set it for volts, not amps. Voltage reading should be very low while cranking. Higher reading on the meter means there's resistance in the cable. Should show less than 1.5-2.0 volts. Do each section of the circuit that way.

Right procedure, wrong spec. Upwards of 4 volts combined for both cables would make for a non-starter for sure. .15 - .2 volts per cable would be more ideal.

You don't use an ohmmeter to check for resistance in battery cables, or any cable for that matter. You test a cable by voltage drop as discussed above.

The problem is most likely in the starter activation circuit, which would include the key switch, neutral safety switch, and all the connections along the way. Best way to confirm is by jumping a hot wire straight to the male spade terminal on the starter, AFTER confirming the transmission is in neutral. If the starter cranks every time, check all of the connections in the aforementioned circuit.

I was thinking more for 6v systems. Never really had to do it with 12s.

No such thing as a 2000SU but my 4000SU did that a few years ago, it was loosing connection in the wiring harness plug, cleaning the plug helped for a while but I ended up splicing in a jumper wire in that circuit, used a set of blade connectors so I could still unplug the harness if needed.

With a 6-volt system, your specs would be even worse, by a factor of two. If the cables absorbed 4 volts worth of loss in a 6-volt system, that would represent 2/3 of the available power being taken up by cable resistance, and only 1/3 left to crank the engine. 2 volts at the starter would not be enough to even nudge the engine over.

I should have said continuity meter, which shows the resistance, but I understand, and will try the procedure you described.

(quoted from post at 20:59:30 10/26/19)
No such thing as a 2000SU but my 4000SU.

Click to expand...

Sorry, yeah. 4000SU. Operating on new kid and no sleep

I followed the procedure, and the cables were at least a little suspect. More like .8 voltage drop.

Cables are cheap, so I figured they were worth replacing and trying again.

With the new cables, I connected pos. to the solenoid, neg. to the starter, then pos. to the battery, and as I was hooking up neg. to the battery, the starter post sparked, glowed red, and caught fire!

Immediately disconnected the pos.

The key / wasn't cranked or anything, so I'm assuming for current to flow, and cause this, there must be a short in the starter / solenoid, right?

My yardstick is 10V on the "starter" 12v stud to starter case while rolling the starter at a couple hundred RPMs....not wires to the stud, or stud nut, the starter STUD to its case where it touches the tractor main frame. If less voltage, walk around your distribution system looking for a voltage drop across a connection. Don't overlook the starter to main frame interface where the starter mounts....easy to get corrosion there between the bolt and or starter case to main frame interface. Also the negative lead from the battery attaches to the main frame housing via a bolt which is a likely suspect spot for a voltage drop if dirty or loose......and dirty means dirty on the inside where the current needs to be flowing, not cosmetically.

Engines like that run 250-300 Amperes to start. Considering you are playing with 12.7-10 = 2.7 Volts your maximum resistance around the ENTIRE loop is only 2.7/300 = 9 Milliohms.....that's 0.009 Ohms.

Energizing current for the solenoid coil is less than an amp, even if it's as much as 5 amps, you can tolerate several ohms there and get the job done.

On a JD 4230C I was having starting problems with their 6v batteries in series, one on either side of the tractor with the ground on the far side from the starter. I put in 2 12v 925 CCA batteries (one on each side) and wired them in parallel with both hot and cold 00 Ga. wires from the far side coming over to the battery on the near side with the 00 Ga. ground wire from the batteries touching the starter case under a mounting bolt. Never had to use a starting aid in the winter again. Wink!

For what it's worth, after much cursing, and going through every combination of extension and wobble in my drawer, I was able to pull the starter.

Opened her up, and there was a boatload of brush dust in there, which could be causing a short.

Looks like it needs new brushes, and the armature is well worn too, so I took it to my local rebuild guy to look at for me, and he had the same opinion.

He put it on his test bench, and it didn't sound right and was running real slow compared with any starter I've seen before. Do starters for diesels tend to run slower and with more torque to turn over the high compression?

Will let you know what happens.

(quoted from post at 06:59:17 11/02/19) For what it's worth, after much cursing, and going through every combination of extension and wobble in my drawer, I was able to pull the starter.

Opened her up, and there was a boatload of brush dust in there, which could be causing a short.

Looks like it needs new brushes, and the armature is well worn too, so I took it to my local rebuild guy to look at for me, and he had the same opinion.

He put it on his test bench, and it didn't sound right and was running real slow compared with any starter I've seen before. Do starters for diesels tend to run slower and with more torque to turn over the high compression?

Will let you know what happens.

Click to expand...

Just to keep you updated, and for future readers, we cleaned it out, redid the brushes and replaced the armature. But, when I reinstalled the starter it still had issues.

Took it off again, and found that the ground post was quite burned. It's just a bolt, and I was able to knock it out, but where it goes through the housing is quite thin from arcing, so I'll need to order a new housing to put a new bolt through.

Move the ground cable to the starter mounting bolt.
Don't know what you spent rebuilding the old starter but you could have gotten a new one for around $150.
Any time I need to replace a starter on my tractors I'll purchase a Bosch 82005342 for the newer models, spins the motor over faster than the older Lucas brand.

That's a good point. I'm going to make up a cable that goes from that stud bolt to the starter mounting bolt, just to give an alternate ground path if something happens again.

It was about $160 to get the rebuild. I gave the guy a ballpark for a new starter and asked if he could get in the same range. There's a lot of gravity in that Lucas starter, and I figured if it was good for 45 years, it
would be good for that again with a rebuild.

Having said that, the only new ones I saw before were off brand Chinesium, not Bosch, so I may have made a different calculation if I'd known that.

Just to finish this up for future readers, the problem was the ground bolt on the starter. It looked fine from the outside case of the starter. It looked fine when I pulled the starter apart.

But when I knocked the bolt out of the housing, the contact between the bolt and the housing showed heavy arc damage, and the housing was almost worn through from arcing. There was no good contact there.

I was able to get a new end case for the housing, and put a new bolt in, and it's starting better than it ever did.

Also, when I bought it, the seller said the transmission safety was marginal, and I had to sometimes wiggle the gearshift to get her to start.

Turns out the safety was fine, and the intermittent starting problem was the ground bolt. It was just coincidence that it sometimes started, wiggle or not.