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Ford Tractors Discussion Forum
Order Ford 4500 Parts Online

4500 TBL oil in water

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jimel

10-28-2019 09:50:23




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My 1971 4500 TBL 3 cyl. diesel has is suddenly getting water in the oil. My first thought is the head gasket. Engine runs and sounds fine with clean exhaust (except at start-up now when it is steamy for a few minutes). I don't have a compression gauge (yet). I am hoping someone can suggest some other, much easier to fix, cause of the problem.
I changed the oil when I noticed the problem and have not run it since.
Any ideas appreciated. Thank, Jim.

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Destroked 450

10-30-2019 18:13:16




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 Re: 4500 TBL oil in water in reply to jimel, 10-28-2019 09:50:23  
DT466 I rebuilt last month had a pin hole 1/3 of the way up from the bottom, when we pulled the liners there were pits from 1/4 way up to 3/4's of the way up.

Hard block would be ok for a rusted out water jacket at the bottom of the block but I wouldn't want to fill more 1/2" thick.

Had a Ford 5000 with rust hole in the bottom of the block years ago, poured in 1/2" of epoxy resin, tractor was sold 3 years later not leaking.

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bobwhitecar

10-30-2019 09:28:10




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 Re: 4500 TBL oil in water in reply to jimel, 10-28-2019 09:50:23  
I think most of the pin holes were at the bottom of the water jacket at the bore, so it would only take a inch of hard block to seal it up,



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Bern

10-30-2019 10:24:24




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 Re: 4500 TBL oil in water in reply to bobwhitecar, 10-30-2019 09:28:10  
If the holes were at the bottom, that's rust, not cavitation. Cavitation almost always occurs near the middle of the cylinder wall due to wall vibration.



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Destroked 450

10-30-2019 06:32:00




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 Re: 4500 TBL oil in water in reply to jimel, 10-28-2019 09:50:23  
Sounds like a cavitation hole in a cylinder, the only sure fix is to have the block sleeved, but that's a lot of work and pricy.

You can try some of the block sealers on the market to see if they'll provide a temporary or long term patch to the problem.

Blue Devil, Bar's, K&W are some that come to mind, also sodium silicate (liquid glass) is a old favorite.



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bobwhitecar

10-29-2019 13:52:14




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 Re: 4500 TBL oil in water in reply to jimel, 10-28-2019 09:50:23  
I have a friend that has used the hard block with great success on ford tractors



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Bern

10-29-2019 21:39:16




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 Re: 4500 TBL oil in water in reply to bobwhitecar, 10-29-2019 13:52:14  
How far up did he fill it? You'd have to fill the water jacket at least half full, if not more, to cover most cavitation holes. If you do that, it will overheat the cylinder walls and seize pistons.



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Jim.ME

10-29-2019 05:58:51




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 Re: 4500 TBL oil in water in reply to jimel, 10-28-2019 09:50:23  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

To be clear, I was referring to the link working in answer to the question of "What is hard block?". I would not consider using that product in an engine, other than in drag racing applications as it was intended for, stiffening engines, not plugging leaks.



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Jim.ME

10-29-2019 04:47:19




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 Re: 4500 TBL oil in water in reply to jimel, 10-28-2019 09:50:23  
This one should work.

http://www.hardblok.com/



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Jim.ME

10-29-2019 04:45:58




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 Re: 4500 TBL oil in water in reply to jimel, 10-28-2019 09:50:23  
http://www.hardblok.com/



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bobwhitecar

10-28-2019 13:43:56




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 Re: 4500 TBL oil in water in reply to jimel, 10-28-2019 09:50:23  
you could try hard block in it



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markct

10-29-2019 03:52:30




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 Re: 4500 TBL oil in water in reply to bobwhitecar, 10-28-2019 13:43:56  
What is hard block?



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jimel

10-28-2019 20:56:47




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 Re: 4500 TBL oil in water in reply to bobwhitecar, 10-28-2019 13:43:56  
I will research that. Thanks



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Bern

10-29-2019 05:49:42




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 Re: 4500 TBL oil in water in reply to jimel, 10-28-2019 20:56:47  
I don't think you want to use that Hard Block stuff. It is designed for drag racers who need maximum cylinder wall stiffness in the quarter mile, not someone like you who has a hole to plug up.

Most cavitation holes are approximately halfway up the cylinder wall. Do you really want to cover up half the cooling wall length of the cylinder?

Stated another way, your pistons could very well seize up if the engine is worked hard.

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Bern

10-28-2019 10:30:49




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 Re: 4500 TBL oil in water in reply to jimel, 10-28-2019 09:50:23  
My first thought is cavitation, not a head gasket. Slim chance it's soft plugs in the head. If I were a betting man, I'd say 90% chance it's a pinhole, 9% chance it's soft plugs, and 1% chance it's a head gasket. I've worked on too many Fords to think otherwise.

Sorry for the bad news.



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jimel

10-28-2019 11:28:12




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 Re: 4500 TBL oil in water in reply to Bern, 10-28-2019 10:30:49  
Thank you, I appreciate these suggestions, as discouraging as they are. Several years ago I had to remove the engine and replace the crankshaft. Pretty sure I don't have the energy to face that again!



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Bern

10-28-2019 12:45:38




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 Re: 4500 TBL oil in water in reply to jimel, 10-28-2019 11:28:12  
If it makes you feel any better, I'll revise my predictions to 80% cavitation, 10% cylinder head soft plugs, or 10% head gasket. The reason why I raised the head gasket odds is because if your 4500 is an early model with the thin head gasket, that slightly increases the odds that it could actually be the gasket. That said, I can't remember the last time I worked on a Ford where the head gasket was the cause of water in the oil.

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jimel

10-28-2019 21:11:28




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 Re: 4500 TBL oil in water in reply to Bern, 10-28-2019 12:45:38  
I'll take those upgrades to my odds...



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Fordfarmer

10-28-2019 10:25:13




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 Re: 4500 TBL oil in water in reply to jimel, 10-28-2019 09:50:23  
Unfortunately, water in the oil on these usually ends up being a cavitated cylinder wall. Requires a full teardown, bore oversize, and sleeve back to standard. Not what you wanted to hear, I'm sure...



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Shaun Wallace

10-28-2019 09:56:08




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 Re: 4500 TBL oil in water in reply to jimel, 10-28-2019 09:50:23  
Pull rocker cover and check freeze plugs in top of head.



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jimel

10-28-2019 10:02:45




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 Re: 4500 TBL oil in water in reply to Shaun Wallace, 10-28-2019 09:56:08  
Thanks Shaun. It will be a bit before I can start this repair but will do what you suggest first.



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bobwhitecar

10-30-2019 16:00:57




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 Re: 4500 TBL oil in water in reply to jimel, 10-28-2019 10:02:45  
if the pin hole was in the middle of the bore, surely the combustion would build pressure in the radiator



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bobwhitecar

10-30-2019 16:02:20




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 Re: 4500 TBL oil in water in reply to bobwhitecar, 10-30-2019 16:00:57  
to get coolant in the oil, the leak has to be below the ring travel



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