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Ford Tractors Discussion Forum
Order Ford 4000 Parts Online

1974 Ford 4000 SOS

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strum456

10-23-2019 17:45:11




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I picked up a non-running 1974 ford 4000 Select O Speed this summer. The diesel engine had spun a bearing, but the owner told me the transmission worked great. I got the tractor for a low enough price that my back up plan was to swap the diesel engine from this 4000 into my gas 3000 if it turned out that the transmission wasn't as good as the owner said it was.

Well, I tried out the transmission for the first time tonight. Gears 3,4,7,8,10 and R2 do not work. I have a factory Ford shop manual. According to the manual, it sounded like a problem with band #1. Then I noticed oil pouring out of the bellhousing. I split the tractor again, to find a bad leak at the trans input shaft. My manual tells me that this leak could cause the particular gears that I was having a problem with not to work.

I also know that the input shaft and torque limiting clutch are shot. The splines are half worn off or should I say "half good". I don't want to be too pessimistic. I thought I would try out the rest of the trans before I do anything about those splines. Good thing I did, because I went to replace the input shaft seal and found that the splines on the pump are bad !!#$* Now I'm puzzled. The pump splines aren't worn. Just a spline here and there is sheared off. I have no explanation as to how that would even be possible.
So now I have to decide what to do. We did a major on the engine. New crank, bored, whole 9 yards.

Option #1: fix the SOS trans. knowing it needs an input shaft, limiting clutch, pump, and who knows what else.

Option #2: Part out the tractor, but keep the engine for my 3000. I could also sell the gas engine out of the 3000. There's nothing wrong with it. I'd just rather have a diesel.

Option #3: Find an 8 speed for the 4000 and swap out the SOS. Aside from the SOS, the tractor is in pretty nice shape. I have no idea where to look for a manual trans. though. I suppose I could look for a good SOS trans too. I wouldn't know where to find either one locally.

I would like to fix this tractor, rather than part it out, but I'm afraid it may be worth more in parts. Not to mention, value of my 3000 would nearly double by switching it over to a diesel.

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strum456

10-29-2019 18:21:35




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to strum456, 10-23-2019 17:45:11  
Thanks for the info. I tried posting in classic view, but it would work for me. When I press submit, my post would disappear and nothing got posted. I attempted my very first post that way, to no avail.

The studs on the 3910 are 3/4, like my 4000. After a lot of calls and shopping around, I have decided to get the 3910 setup. I really like the idea of the tractor being a former sweeper unit as opposed to an ag tractor. The pedals, rock shafts, pto lever, gear shifts, all tell me that this unit had a relatively easy life. Not to mention this is a 10 series, so the hyd pump would be an upgrade. What I'm not thrilled about is the fact that the fill plug for the rear end is missing. The salvage guy says it wasn't off for long. A quick look inside tells me that he is probably telling the truth. It seems that every option that I've found has something missing off of it that would allow water to enter. I plan to take off the lift cover and trans cover at minimum. I'll have to start a new thread, once I get it home.

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strum456

10-29-2019 07:29:13




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to strum456, 10-23-2019 17:45:11  
Interesting. Thanks for the info!



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Destroked 450

10-29-2019 07:09:45




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to strum456, 10-23-2019 17:45:11  
If it were gas it would have a 2 in place if the 5 for the engine code.

Also the last gas engines Ford built was in 83 or 84, this one is a 89/90 model.

Looked up American Lincoln and found a model 9772 that appears to be based off of the 3930 series with diesel engine.

My guess is when Ford stopped making gas engines American Lincoln what to switch to diesel.



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Destroked 450

10-29-2019 07:09:23




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to strum456, 10-23-2019 17:45:11  
If it were gas it would have a 2 in place if the 5 for the engine code.

Also the last gas engines Ford built was in 83 or 84, this one is a 89/90 model.

Looked up American Lincoln and found a model 9772 that appears to be based off of the 3930 series with diesel engine.

My guess is when Ford stopped making gas engines American Lincoln what to switch to diesel.



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strum456

10-29-2019 05:39:15




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to strum456, 10-23-2019 17:45:11  
How sure are you on the "diesel engine"? I was told that this was a gas tractor. The engine has been sold. It was an American Lincoln sweeper, or something. From my research, those are mostly all LP gas.

The owner has the flywheel that he says came off of it. I know there's a difference in at least the ring gear between gas and diesel, but I'm not able to tell that it is different than my ring gear on the diesel. So, that is one piece of info that is telling me that you are correct. The scrap yard guy says it was gas and he drove it around.

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Ultradog MN

10-29-2019 06:36:28




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to strum456, 10-29-2019 05:39:15  
Gas and diesel flywheels Are the same.
Ring gear from one is easily changed to the other.
By the way, more than half of the folks here use the "classic view" way of reading and responding to posts.
In classic your post is way down on page 2 now and less and less likely to be seen by a full half of the members here.
This has been a good thread but for future questions about it I would suggest you start a new thread.
PS,
Don't forget to check the lug bolt size on that 3910 before you buy it - if you do. 5/8 vs 3/4" lugs could be a major setback.

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Destroked 450

10-28-2019 06:36:05




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to strum456, 10-23-2019 17:45:11  
Some one posted a list of codes a while back and I printed them off.

Have added to my list when I find new code numbers or letters

Have pretty good list on -000, -600, --10 series, some info on --30 series, nothing on the --40 or newer models.



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strum456

10-28-2019 04:49:27




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to strum456, 10-23-2019 17:45:11  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see



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Destroked 450

10-27-2019 21:02:14




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to strum456, 10-23-2019 17:45:11  
Model code CA4548

CA4 = 3910 all purpose built 83-90

5 = diesel engine with horizontal exhaust

4 = Ind 540 pto

8 = ? No 8 in my trans code list, are you sure it's not a C for the 8x2 trans
Production date 9?02?

9 = 89

? = should be a letter for the month built

02 = 2nd day of the month

? should be a letter here for the shift the tractor was built on

Serial # BC27001 is for a early 90 model tractor

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strum456

10-27-2019 16:23:59




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to strum456, 10-23-2019 17:45:11  
I looked at the 3910 axle and trans today. Can anyone decide the numbers for me? I can't find anything to decide tractors newer than 1974.

CA4548

9?02

BC27001



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showcrop

10-26-2019 14:19:11




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to strum456, 10-23-2019 17:45:11  
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Strum that should work. But check part numbers for the wheel centers. They could be different.



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strum456

10-26-2019 13:49:30




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to strum456, 10-23-2019 17:45:11  
My 4610 was owned by a friend of mine since new. I hate to mess with it.



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strum456

10-26-2019 13:42:57




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to strum456, 10-23-2019 17:45:11  
I found a 5000 select o trans and rear today that the price may be right on. I am being told that I could bolt my 201 engine onto the 5000 transmission and rear and use the wheels and tire off the 4000. I know it is a smaller engine on a bigger tractor, but I don't see how it would be any different than a 4000 rear end with ballast. Thoughts?



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Ultradog MN

10-26-2019 18:22:24




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to strum456, 10-26-2019 13:42:57  
Another SOS?
My thought is it was an SOS that got you having to convolute a bunch of parts together to make a tractor.
I haven't given the idea of a 3 cyl in a 5000 much thought before.
Depending on the year, it would require shortening the draglink and maybe PS lines to the column.
The tank and firewall on a 4 cyl is very different than a 3 cyl tractor. Probably have to shorten the battery tray.
Side hoods would need to be reworked.
I think it would be more fun to put a 234 in a 3000.

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Destroked 450

10-25-2019 15:07:02




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to strum456, 10-23-2019 17:45:11  
You could take the front axle and bolster, steering sector, fuel tank and rear tires, put them on the 4610SU and make a 4610AP out of it.

Should have everything you need but a front grill shell, steering column for a late 4000 is the same as for a 4600, 4610.

The power steering column and 30" rear wheels are worth what you gave for the 4000



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Ultradog MN

10-25-2019 17:51:17




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to Destroked 450, 10-25-2019 15:07:02  
Not a bad idea actually.
Put the AP stuff on his SU.
Except the part about having one 4xxx.
I thought we were supposed to help him have two of them. I don't know about the nose on a 10 series so well. Haven't had one.
On the pre 84 models you could cut the valence off of any wishbone 3 cyl, make and weld simple brackets on the bottom and bolt it to any 4xxx bolster.
Pretty sure 5xxx too.
It is a perfect fit.
Wishbone valence is always bashed in or cut out for a pump anyway...
Another thing I had to Make Kenny do.
Then he liked it and did it again.

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lastcowboy32

10-25-2019 08:33:56




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to strum456, 10-23-2019 17:45:11  
My situation was different than yours in another way as well. You have a 7600 as the "big tractor". My 4000 was the "big tractor", and I used its demise as the impetus to get a bigger big tractor.

To do so, I had to sell the 4000 to recover some cost to help buy the new "big tractor".

If I had the money laying around, and if I already had a bigger tractor for baling and such, I would have rebuilt that 4000 in a heartbeat.

I even considered selling the 3000 to get money to rebuild the 4000, but the problem there was time. It was the middle of haying season.

Long and short of it is, if I was in your situation, I wouldn't worry too much about how much you say you will have into it.

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lastcowboy32

10-25-2019 08:17:26




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to strum456, 10-23-2019 17:45:11  
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Things like this are almost always worth more to you to use than to sell.

When I got rid of my 4000, I paid (actually am paying...every month) a small fortune to replace it with a new tractor.

If I had paid five grand for my 4000, and it was all rebuilt and lasted ten or twenty years without any major problems? I wouldn't have blinked.

As it was, I paid four grand for it, it lasted a year, and I was looking at about three grand to rebuild it. I would have been way further underwater than yourself.

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strum456

10-24-2019 18:21:11




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to strum456, 10-23-2019 17:45:11  
I'd like to have a 4000 AP. We have some 800s, a 900, 3000, 4610 SU, 7600, and a 345d. I think I'd get a lot of use out of the 4000. The 4610 SU spends most of its time on the 9ft finish mower. We use the 7600 for mowing and baling. 3000 and 800s for tedder / rake duty and general use. My biggest gripe about the 4610 SU is the power steering is slow and not as nice as the 7600 and the front is too light. The 4000 would be better on both counts. I have a Harley Rake and a 14k dump trailer that I pull around the farm a lot too. The SU spends more time with the front tires off the ground than on. I made a big concrete weight for it, which helps.

The 4000 that I have in pieces is in good to average condition. The rear tires have great tread but are cracked all over. The sheet metal looks pretty good, but would need some serious work to be worth painting (in my opinion). I like sheet metal repair and painting, so that part is not a big deal to me. It would just take me some time and about 300 or so in paint products and I'd have it looking better than a new tractor.

I have no intentions of selling any of the tractors I work on, but I'm not into making bad investments either (at least if I can help it).

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strum456

10-24-2019 15:22:49




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to strum456, 10-23-2019 17:45:11  
Here's where I'm at with the project.

4000 AP with spun bearing in the engine and bad SOS trans (didn't know at the time)

1700

Total engine rebuild including machining and a new crank

1500

Rear axle and trans

1000

Flywheel
?

Clutch

300

Am I going to be into this thing too deep? I could still put the engine in my 3000 and sell parts.

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Ultradog MN

10-24-2019 17:55:05




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to strum456, 10-24-2019 15:22:49  
What will you do with the tractor if/when you get it running?
If your plan was to sell it for a profit you're way under water now so get out while you can.
If you planned to use it for a few years $5K would not be too much for a tractor that size.
For what it's worth, I've seen a lot of guys dump most of that much into a Ford N Series.
Another big question is your tires.
How good are they? How's the tin?
Though the heyday of these old Fords is behind us and parts aren't selling worth a darn I've still come out okay on the two that I pictured.
Probably sold enough parts off the two to get the 8 sp transmission and rear end from the 4000 for little or nothing - which is what I wanted in the first place - to replace the SOS in my own 4000. Mine worked good but I hated the thing.

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lastcowboy32

10-24-2019 14:07:06




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to strum456, 10-23-2019 17:45:11  
It's not a terrible price.
Maybe a better number is the price that I bought the 4000 for. I bought it at auction, which is usually a good indicator of what the market bears, back in 2018 for $4000 with a loader on it, and it was seemingly in good condition.

It had a hidden issue with the engine that took a year to blow.

But, anyway, when I sold it, I was trying to get about 2500 for all of it, with the loader. In the end, I got 1350 for the tractor, and I'm probably going to get some animals for the loader, since the farmer that bought the loader doesn't have cash...which is OK... we've all been there.

Two elephants for a quarter is a good price if you have the quarter and need the elephants.

Which is a way of saying, if you have the thousand bucks and a good engine...and the tranny and rear end are good? Doesn't sound all that bad.

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strum456

10-24-2019 13:59:13




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to strum456, 10-23-2019 17:45:11  
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Thanks for the info. They are asking $1000 for just the rear end and transmission. Maybe that's a little high then?



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lastcowboy32

10-24-2019 13:55:02




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to strum456, 10-23-2019 17:45:11  
Just so you have a number, I sold my Ford 4000 diesel, with blown engine and a working eight speed for $1350 last summer.
I started at a higher price and may have been able to get it, if I held out for a couple or a few months, but that what's I could get for it in Central New York after having it on the market for a couple of weeks, a few hours away from you.

Good luck.



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Ultradog MN

10-24-2019 15:17:23




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to lastcowboy32, 10-24-2019 13:55:02  
I think your price is in the zone.
I've bought/sold a couple/few 4000s in the last two? years.
Bought this 4600 as is for $1100.


Bought this 4000 for $1200.

And I sold the transmission/rear end with clutch and flywheel from a 4400 it did have 3 point and ipto but was a 6x4 for $1K.

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strum456

10-24-2019 12:45:56




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to strum456, 10-23-2019 17:45:11  
I've made some progress. I talked to Leroy at Paige Equipment - super nice guy with so much knowledge. He suggested finding another complete transmission. I called the nearest tractor salvage yard I could find (1.5 hours away), and they have an 8 speed off of a 3910, with the rear end included.
Now I'm looking for a flywheel. The 3910 is a gas, and my tractor is a diesel. I've made some calls and haven't had any luck so far.

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Ultradog MN

10-24-2019 13:16:09




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to strum456, 10-24-2019 12:45:56  
I'm not certain but rhink a 3910 has the same 8 on 8" lug pattern but has 5/8" bolts and not 3/4" like a 4000 has.
Likely has taller gears in the rear end too.
I would at least ask about those things.



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Larry NCKS

10-24-2019 05:45:37




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to strum456, 10-23-2019 17:45:11  
Arthur's Tractors @ Indiana, PA is good with SOS transmissions and is likely not terribly far from you.



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showcrop

10-24-2019 05:40:02




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to strum456, 10-23-2019 17:45:11  
Leroy at Page Equipment in Luray VA is only four hours away. He works on SOSs every day and has a lot of parts and rebuilt assemblies.



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strum456

10-24-2019 05:36:02




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to strum456, 10-23-2019 17:45:11  
A double split would be nothing new, but SOS transmissions are. Messicks has listings on a lot of these parts, but it would be cost prohibitive. We would like to have an AP 4000, but it's not something I need to fix. If the tractor was in the family for years, it would be different.



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strum456

10-24-2019 05:31:19




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to strum456, 10-23-2019 17:45:11  
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I'm in SW PA, Westmoreland County.



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JK-NY

10-24-2019 05:31:09




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to strum456, 10-23-2019 17:45:11  
You may be able to find a tractor with a bad engine to use your new engine in, or provide a donor transmission, flywheel clutch etc. As mentioned if we know where you are some one here might be able to help you. I would do some looking into parts available and cost for the SOS , I am not sure how much dealer support CNH is providing for them these days , although I am sure some of the folks on here can give you some parts sources and advice. The SOS all comes apart out the back so you are in for a double split and might find more issues once you get it apart. If you are capable of doing the work you’re self fixing the SOS might be worth doing but if you want to send it to a shop it may be hard to find someone familiar with them. There were 2 former Ford trained dealer mechanics in this area that were real good on the SOS but one has passed away. The other one was able to provide me with some good used parts for mine when it needed some love almost 25 years ago.

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showcrop

10-23-2019 19:17:55




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 Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS in reply to strum456, 10-23-2019 17:45:11  
The first thing is to tell where you are incase someone just down around the corner has the transmission that you want.



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