Not happy with Ford 3000 starting

nashranch

Well-known Member
I recently replaced rings, head gasket and other gaskets as needed. Top compression rings on 2 pistons were broken so it needed a little work. It still starts hard with alot of white smoke. Once it's running it runs rough like not firing on all cylinders. After it warms up it runs out real good. When i pull the injectors they are real black and real sooty.
Do i need new injectors?

Anybody have any suggestions on this problem. I'm open to try anything.

Wondering also on this Simms inline pump if there is any slight timing adjustment. It looks fixed in its position


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Good Grief Mike;
Get an exahust hose, to put over that stack, before someone finds ya passed out on the cement floor.
I told ya to go to NAPA for one like mine. !!!!
Drill a 2" hole through the shop wall....stick the hose outside...and get rid of that smoke!!!!

Gary :shock:
 
Have you tried using the excess fuel button? It is in the stop
pivot and clearly visible in your pump picture with a rubber
cover round it. Pull the throttle half way, push the button in
at away you go. It will fly out once the engine is started.

You may also need some hard work to bed in the new rings etc.
before she really starts well.
 
The timing is adjustable, thru the front.. theres a timing line on the pump hub & a boss that sticks out from the pump face w/ a timing line on it..{around 12-1:00 looking at the front of the pump}
U set your engine at ?? * & loosen the bolts in the gear & line up the 2 timing marks..

The injectors probably need to be checked/rebuilt..

There is a cold start button on your pump.. its the shaft that runs thru the shut off lever..
Pull the throttle off of low idle & push in on the shaft.. u should hear a click & the shaft should stay IN until it starts..
IF it doesn't.. u have other internal problems..
WHEN was the last time u changed the oil in the pump??
The drain is on the bottom & the "full mark" is on the side.. both 1/2" wrenches. just use whatever oil u put in the engine..
I hope this helps a little..
 
I'd pull the injectors and do a compression test. Hard starting, white smoke, but clears and runs OK hot sure sounds like low compression. Diesels will run OK when hot at 300 PSI, but won't start well when that low. Was the new head gasket the same thickness as the old one? If the new one is thicker THAT WILL lower compression too, causing your problem..
 
I'm with Dieseltech. Will almost bet it's low compression. Did you check the bores with a bore gauge, mic the pistons and check the wear of the ring grooves, check the end gap of the new rings in the bores? I learned many years ago that ringing a worn out diesel a waste of time and money. Aluminum pistons wear faster than cast blocks. I always replace the pistons, if available. If it needs boring,it gets bored or if it has sleeves, it gets sleeves and pistons. Don't forget the head either, a valve job is a must. We rebuild one or two engines a month but we don't do ring jobs or inframes. An engine kit is cheap compared to the labor required to do it twice.
 
I'm not familiar with Ford diesels. Is that sediment bowl in the right position? Looks like a home rigged setup with the hose. I don't see how it could work in that position.
 
(quoted from post at 00:19:33 10/18/19)

Good Grief Mike;
Get an exahust hose, to put over that stack, before someone finds ya passed out on the cement floor.
I told ya to go to NAPA for one like mine. !!!!
Drill a 2" hole through the shop wall....stick the hose outside...and get rid of that smoke!!!!

Gary :shock:


Old Pic Gary...she's outside the shop now under a tarped overhang

To answer the other questions I do use the cold start button which helps but then it runs rough like it's missing a cylinder. Ok after it runs a while.

Head gasket replaced was the exact same as old one. Just replaced rings on all 3 and honed cylinders. I did it as cheap as possible. Did not mic the pistons or cylinders( cheap cheap cheap).

I borrowed old set of injectors from neighbor and installed with no noticeable success. Probaly should uy new injectors but I'm too cheap. Just gonna flip this tractor.

I have not checked compression( unreliable compression tester from Harbor freight)
 
(quoted from post at 06:17:22 10/18/19) I'm not familiar with Ford diesels. Is that sediment bowl in the right position? Looks like a home rigged setup with the hose. I don't see how it could work in that position.

It does look hokie to me too Mike(Ohio). I've never seen one like this before. There is a fine mesh screen in there but I agree "How can this sediment bowl like this?"
 
(quoted from post at 06:54:40 10/18/19)
(quoted from post at 06:17:22 10/18/19) I'm not familiar with Ford diesels. Is that sediment bowl in the right position? Looks like a home rigged setup with the hose. I don't see how it could work in that position.

It does look hokie to me too Mike(Ohio). I've never seen one like this before. There is a fine mesh screen in there but I agree "How can this sediment bowl like this?"

I would like to replace fine mesh screen cuz it's cracked but can not find any parts for it on the CNH website
https://partstore.agriculture.newholland.com/us/parts-search.html#epc::mr67519ar498311
 
I am no expert, but is safe to say I have seen a few of these. First pull the cover off the side of this pump that says Simms. I wouldn't be at all surprised to have broken springs. VERY,Very common problem. Also have you tried retarding the timing 1-2 degrees? If you go to far it will flutter bad above 800-1200 RPMs. The more advance it gets the better it runs generally,but the harder it starts. Retarded the better it starts. Sometimes you have to hunt for the sweet spot to make the run right, 90-95% of all the Simms pumps I see with any age on them are in need of repair. The springs break from condensation/ rust pits. The gov Assemblies are almost always in bad shape from lack of oil and to much water. Al
 
That sediment bowl should be on the bottom of the tank if anywhere. I was thinking the housing it's mounted on was a fuel transfer pump then I looked at your link. I'm betting the way the bowl is mounted that the cover and diaphragm are missing and the bowl was forced in or tapped for a pipe thread. Either way it's doing nothing.
 
I agree with you on the timing aspect with relation to hard starting. That said, retarding the timing means even more white smoke after it fires off. A delicate balancing act for sure with regards to timing.

Also, it has been my observation that a broken spring in a Simms pump usually causes that cylinder to not fire at all. That's not what I see here.
 
(quoted from post at 08:48:16 10/18/19) I agree with you on the timing aspect with relation to hard starting. That said, retarding the timing means even more white smoke after it fires off. A delicate balancing act for sure with regards to timing.

Also, it has been my observation that a broken spring in a Simms pump usually causes that cylinder to not fire at all. That's not what I see here.

The sediment bowl is definetely post of the fuel pump Mike(Ohio)
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I will pull that Simms cover later this morning and see what i see... will be looking for broken springs Bern
 
Mike, so that you don't risk killing everything in your shop. just bring it to me and I will work the snot out of it. Either cure it or kill it!!!
 
(quoted from post at 10:34:23 10/18/19) Mike, so that you don't risk killing everything in your shop. just bring it to me and I will work the snot out of it. Either cure it or kill it!!!

Thanks Arlen but I have a prospective buyer so I better keep it here so I can sell it
 
I just now removed that Simms side cover to check out the plungers for broken springs and am happy to report NO broken springs. I pushed in the cold start button in and the tractor actually started better than it ever has. I ran it a while while I had the cover off so I could watch the plungers go up and down. I'm a happy camper now and feel good about selling this tractor to someone. Hope my prospective buyer comes back soon to take it away so I can find another one to work on.
 
My 6610 has same pump, will start fine down to about 45, below that needs cold start button in.

It also has thermostart, but never used.

I think your pump and injectors need gone through, broken rings are indicative of Ether or overfueling damage.
 
Anybody know exactly what this fuel pump and sediment bowl is off of. I would like to order new brass screen inside but can't find parts breakdown anywhere


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I've been around many Simms inline pumps in my time, but I've never seen one with a lift pump like that.
It's definitely not Ford factory, that's for sure.
 
I might be nuts, but if my old foggy memory is right I think I have seen them on Simms pumps somewhere in the David Brown flavor. It has been ALONG time though. Not sure what may have been installed from the Ford plants in Europe. Al
 
Sounds crazy but I had a similar situation. Had lots of slime gunk and trash in the tank that caused a restriction around the fuel tap screen. Flushed the tank several times and blew it out with a shop vac and solved most of my problems and doesn t smoke near as bad on startup and clears up within a couple minutes of running. May not be the case with your machine but it took me over 6 months to find this "simple" problem.
 
(quoted from post at 18:53:46 10/20/19) Sounds crazy but I had a similar situation. Had lots of slime gunk and trash in the tank that caused a restriction around the fuel tap screen. Flushed the tank several times and blew it out with a shop vac and solved most of my problems and doesn t smoke near as bad on startup and clears up within a couple minutes of running. May not be the case with your machine but it took me over 6 months to find this "simple" problem.

I think the tank is clean. I have good flow thru the filters and thru the glass semicocked sediment bowl. The diesel is fresh. It runs good once its warmed up. Today i started it to move it and it smoked real bad and run rough for a while.. i hate to but i think i'll order new injectors and the right fuel pump.
 

Yeah that very well could be your issue. Mine would run ok ,would spit and sputter some, and would quit smoking just sitting with no load or anything. Then when placed under a load going up or down a hill it would quit unless the tank was completely full to get enough head pressure to force the fuel through the clogged up screen. Again may not be your issue but it may help.
 
Pulled injectors today to check compression but found out HF tester is junk. I got readings right at 100 and less. That can't be right. Anyway cleaned up injectors and noticed on #3 that the copper washer was stuck in the hole. really stuck so i picked it out finally and noticed alot of carbon buildup on the sealing surfaces. Keeping fingers crossed that i was loosing compression and causing the hard starting and running rough
 
I have finally got a compression tester that actually works. So today i pulled injectors out of this half a**ed rebuilt 3 cyl diesel motor. So my readings are #1 300 #2 320 #3 290.

Is that acceptable or way too low? The tractor does start but does blow a lot of smoke for a bit.

Hopefully it'll get better with time. I don't have any way to load it down and really work the snot out of it.
 
(quoted from post at 20:53:11 10/25/19) I have finally got a compression tester that actually works. So today i pulled injectors out of this half a**ed rebuilt 3 cyl diesel motor. So my readings are #1 300 #2 320 #3 290.

Is that acceptable or way too low? The tractor does start but does blow a lot of smoke for a bit.

Hopefully it'll get better with time. I don't have any way to load it down and really work the snot out of it.

I&T Manual says the compression on that engine should be between 420 & 510 psi with no more than 50 psi variance between the cylinders, so yours looks to be quite a bit low. Was that a dry test or a wet test?
 
That was only a dry test. Later today i will do a wet test. How much oil would you squirt down each cylinder?
 
Did a wet compression test this afternoon...sure looks i need rings but i just did them. Maybe the rings are still seating in..dunno

Any help would be appreciated

Leaning toward Arlen in OR taking this tractor and running the snot out of it

Here's the dry and wet readings
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I remember when i had this engine apart that there was quite a substantial ridge on the top of all three cylinders. I rented a ridge reamer from Autozone and removed the ridge of about 3/4" wide. had no problem doing so. I light should have gone off at the time and i shoulda taken the block in and had it bored and put in new oversize pistons. All i elected to do was put in new Standard rings. Dummy me didn't even check the ring end gap. So now i have a engine with low compression and hard starting. I plan on selling this tractor AS-Is.

Any thoughts on what i should do now??
 

Did a compression recheck today. I'm sure there was still some oil in the cylinders from yesterdays dry and wet test. These numbers i got today were more even across the cylinders.

Tell me what you think?

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