64 Ford 4000 overheated and blew rad cap off

Two days ago, I thought my worst problem was needing to fix the hydraulics.

Yesterday, my new worst problem happened when I was moving rocks (that I collected for a project) from the area where I wanted to put manure composting pile.

I was working the tractor pretty hard, I was moving 3-man boulders. (Maybe I overloaded a ridiculously large bucket...)

Somewhere along the way, I heard a noise that sounded like the fan blades hitting something. Shortly after that, I saw my radiator cap shoot into the air, followed by a blade from the fan shooting out of the bottom, and of course, a bunch of coolant pooling underneath the tractor. There was no sign of the belt, perhaps it is still attached, I'll check sometime this morning.

A few months earlier, the tractor was given a clean bill of health by a long time Ford tractor mechanic. Up to this point, it seems to have run well.

Looking at other posts, I saw something that got me to thinking about root causes.

There is thread here on YT Forums, where an 801 (or 821) owner, had an overheating problem. The condition of the belt that runs the fan and drives the power steering pump came into question.

I have persistent power steering leak issues. The most relevant issue to this overheating problem has been fluid leaking from the reservoir at the seals between the reservoir and the pump body.

What is the chance that fluid got onto the belt and caused the issue that would lead to a fan blade hitting something?

An oily belt, particularly at higher RPM's, could certainly be reason for the belt to slip and go bad. The loader pump seems to need higher RPM's as the loader struggles to lift when I am running the engine a lower speeds. When I am using the loader, I do run the engineer at higher RPM's. Otherwise, when I am pulling something or using a implement, I run it at lower speeds. I have not used this tractor for brush hogging. The tractor spends most of its time in 1st gear. A previous owner removed the Sherman so that is not directly an issue.

As always, I appreciate your time and help.

(quoted from post at 06:41:24 10/10/19) .

Click to expand...

My guess is that either your water pump failed causing the fan to disintegrate, or the fan itself failed. This likely is the root of your cooling system problems.

Does your loader run off a crankshaft mounted front pump . . . or does it run off the pump that runs your 3 pt.?

So give us a hint.
Did the fan actually come off??
The whole thing or just one blade?
If the whole fan came off it's most
likely because your water pump failed.
That would have nothing to do with your
belt or power steering nor much to do
with your loader or how hard you were
working the tractor or what you were
doung with it.
It might have something to do with
ignoring a persistent leak of coolant
from the water pump tho. Did you notice
any of that?
Tell us what actually happened. Where is
the fan now and are all the blades
intact? Then we collectively can get
down to theories and speculation as to
what actually happened.

Hi Larry,

The loader runs off of a front mounted pump. It is separate system from the hydraulics.

One possible explanation....

The heavy over weight boulders make something flex in the frame/loader,,,, and the radiator got pushed back into the fan... and nature took its course.

Hi Ultradog,

The system showed no evidence of recent or current radiator leaks. When tractor was in the shop for an over-all inspection after I took ownership, the old radiator cap was replaced with a new part, and that new part is rated for 4 pounds.

If there was a coolant leak prior to when I became the owner, I cannot be certain. There is a greasy mess in the loader mount frame under the front mounted pump. It appears there was a leak at some time, but I am not certain if there is anything more than hydraulic fluid residue that I am seeing.

The fan itself is attached still, however when I rotated the fan to snap a picture of the broken blade, I could feel, and see, the fan hitting the frame.

So, I am wondering now if something has come loose and caused the fans to slip out of position. I could not get a view of how or where the fan connects, but looking at the two manuals I have, the FO-20 and the Ford Tractor Shop manual the covers Models 600 - 1801, it appears as you suggested, this issue could be related to the water pump.

This picture rotated counter-clockwise 90 degrees, but it shows the pump for the hydraulics and where the fan is hitting the frame.


This photo mysteriously rotated 180 degrees, but it is showing where the fan blade is mounted to the front of the engine.

It looks like your fan is hitting your front axle in the pic. Axle pin might be gone past serviceability.

Hi RRR, axel pin, is that a pivot point that holds the front axel to the frame?

I am looking at my service manual, there appears to be a few steps involved, and that is not an insignificant part either.

Is there any type of visual inspection or another sort of test I can administer to see if that is where I should focus?

(quoted from post at 09:40:02 10/10/19)
Hi RRR, axel pin, is that a pivot point that holds the front axel to the frame?

I am looking at my service manual, there appears to be a few steps involved, and that is not an insignificant part either.

Is there any type of visual inspection or another sort of test I can administer to see if that is where I should focus?

Click to expand...

Maybe undo the fan belt.

See if the water pump bearings failed and the fan now has some slop in it. Maybe that's why it's pulled down into the frame.

That would be best case scenario, from what it looks like. The bearings fail, the fan shaft gets loose, the fan hits the frame and now the belt slips, no fan, no water pump, engine overheats.

If the water pump bearings and fan are still straight and tight, then look at the axle pin. That could easily be worn, especially if you're using a bucket heavily. A worn or broken axle pin could change the position of the engine block and fan, relative to the frame.

What I don't know is how any of that changes when you have that front mount hydraulic pump.

I'm not sure if that pump's shaft goes through where the axle pin used to go... or if you will have a pump shaft and an axle pin. That's where the old time ford mechanics here in the forum and your manual should be able to help you out.

What I do know is that I've read more than a few posts here about how hard that axle pin, king pin, whatever you want to call it, can be to get out. I also remember that the failure mechanisim for when that goes is just like you describe. Instant damage to the fan/radiator/cooling system.

Thank you for your thoughts Cowboy. I am looking, and trying to figure this out still. Looking at my manuals - the best I can figure out is that it appears that pump shaft runs right through the pivot pin.

That must be one tough pin to be hollow and take that kind of weight and force on it!

If there is an old-time ford mechanic that can speak to this issue, I sure do want to hear from him as well.

As it is right now. My fan blades hit the frame and the radiator is empty. I will report back here what happens when I pour water into the radiator. I would be absolutely shocked if it is only the fan blade that is damaged (I do not see how it could only be the fan blade.)

Here is the pictures of what I can see.

This photo is (rotated ccw 90 deg) showing a picture of the pump shaft going through the pivot pin. Should those splines be visible?


(This photo did not rotate when it was imported.) It seems to be clearly evident that the pump shaft runs through the pivot pin.


Again, rotatied c cw 90 deg, in this picture I am showing that the shaft appears to be resting on the bottom of the hole it passes through. It seems like that shaft should be centered more than it is shown here.



Thanks for looking. I appreciate what you guys can say about what you see.

Your axle bushing is probably worn also. If you use a torch to heat up the pin (stay away from your radiator or remove it) you can stick a
long candle to the threaded area and the wax will wick into the threads. I had to weld a thick piece of 1/2" wall tube to my pin and use a
bar about 6 feet long to remove it. You have the heavy duty front axle so make sure you get the right pin and bushing for that axle.

Thank you RRR. I appreciate your information.

I am getting hung-up on now this "whole thing" goes together, perhaps you can help me understand.

It appears that the pump shaft runs through the pivot pin and this is where I am having my issue.

Is the pivot pin hollow, which allows a rotating shaft to run through it? Or is it a the solid shaft that acts both as pivot pin and is also the power in-put to the pump (which seems very unlikely), sleeved by a bushing that takes up all of the force where the frame and axle come together?

It seems like that the weight of the loader bucket, the frame and hydraulic rams and the armature to hold and control the bucket not to mention just the weight of the front-end of the tractor itself, is a huge amount of weight to be resting on one pin or bushing.

Can you, or anyone here, explain to me how this actually works?

If the pump shaft is going to be able to rotate freely to power the pump, I can't see how it can have that much weight on it. On the same token, that also seems like an incredible amount of weight for a single bushing as well.

I must be missing something, because this does not add up for me.

You've got it. Pin is a tube. Shaft for pump goes through it and rotates with crank shaft since it is attached to it.

Water is not supposed to leak out of the side of this fins.

I could be wrong, but this looks like a leak.

(I am not sure why the photo is rotated, but that radiator fluid was actually falling 'down', not 'sideways' as the photo might suggest.)

So, I am certain I have two parts to replace so far:
fan
radiator

Hi All,

This problem is not yet resolved. I let it go over the winter time; I was kind of hoping that it might have fixed itself over the winter. It did not, oh well.

So, today, I was able to remove a plate that protects the hydraulic pump from damage. It looks like with this plate removed, I have very good access to the pump (and pump shaft, and pivot pin and pivot bushing).

What I am trying to figure out is the least amount of stuff I need to unbolt from the tractor to get to the parts I need to check.

With that said, it seems to reason that I should take as much pressure off the axle as I can. To do that, I blocked up the tractor under the transmission housing and got the front end off the ground enough for the axle to freely move up and down. (I am not sure that this was necessary or not, but I did it so yay-me!)

My thinking is that by raising the front, I am giving myself a better chance of being able to free the pump as I will be fighting less friction when loosening the bolts I need to get to in order to access the pivot and bushing.

I will need to drain the FEL hydraulic fluid; I finally found the lowest point in the system, it is at the bottom of the frame, under the pump. That is a plus.

My bottom line is that I am still trying to figure out what direction I need go in to get make this repair happen.

assuming the water pump is good....


along with the axle pin, axle bushings, did you bend the front bolster?? its the piece that holds the axle pin front and rear, and fastens to the engine. Are those bolts tight holding the bolster to the engine? Did the loader frame hit or push the front cowling so that the radiator got pushed back? Something allowed the fan to get to the radiator, so the mystery is what.
on ford 3000 w loader, the axle pin usually wallows out at the threads on the rear on the pin and ruins the bolster and the pin.. I have a lot of damaged bolsters laying around.

Hi sotxbill,

Thank you for your reply.

The bolster is in good repair; not damaged and the bolts are all secured well. I have never hit the front of the tractor into anything - without the bucket down. I don't see any indication of damage to suggest that previous owners have hit the bolster either.

There is no mystery to me as to why the radiator is leaking. When the fan blade hit the axle, it broke off, the broken piece deflected off the axle, hit the radiator leaving a hole, then fell to the ground.

The hole in the radiator is directly correlated to the broken blade hitting it. I am not questioning that.

That hole would explain the sudden loss of coolant, I cannot see any evidence of a leak around the water pump housing.

I *think* my issue is probably with the pivot pin and/or bushing.

That is where I am going to focus looking for the true culprit that cause the frame to lower enough for the fan blades to come into contact with the axle. However, now that I have a significant hole in the radiator, I need to take the sheet metal off to swap in a replacement and once I am that far in, I might as well check the water pump too.

I believe the question I need to ask is: what parts do I need to fully remove to gain enough access to the pivot pin and bushing to give it a thorough inspection? More importantly, considering the area of focus, what do I NOT need to remove.

To take parts off, the machine will need to be supported. Right now, I have it blocked up under the transmission housing to get the front off the ground (a little).

I can't remove the loader frame. I dont have the tools or equipment to do that. My intention is to drain the hydraulic oil, disconnect the pump from the hoses and the drive shaft and remove it to get access to the shaft to remove it.

I am hoping that if i can get that far, I could also replace the pivot and the bushing if necessary. (I am looking at doing this work because I believe that is where the problem lies.)

From what I can see, that is what I need to do. The manuals I have show the row crop and adjustable axles and the HD industrial axle, but they do not cover this light industrial axle and its assembly. I am working somewhat blindly.

I am not finding much information about this repair on the web , or in any of the forums, either.

I greatly appreciate what instruction can be offered.

In my latest replay, which was something like 7 months ago, I said that the bolster was in good repair and that the bolts were secure.

Well, it turns out that was not entirely correct.

I had long suspected that the repair would go way beyond my ability and skill, so I started looking for local help - the kind with tools and *ability.

A neighbor of mine, who is a mechanic and a tinkerer, said he would take a look.

So, after I got it to his shop, he took it apart and found that at some point, the bolster has been damaged, though that damage did not directly lead to the failure I described in introduction to this thread.

Evidence showed that the bolts were not as secure as I thought, either. With the bolster removed, the mechanic could see that the mounting holes had become elongated. Eventually, enough material has been worn away that the frame lowered to a point where the fan engaged the axle, catastrophically.

The mechanic welded in material to restore the frame to its proper height and now there is about a 1/2" of clearance between the fan and the axle.

As it is now, the tractor is running as intended and 'it works'.

That should bring this thread to a close, at least in as much as whomever else might encounter this problem might know what the cause was to the problem I experienced, and offer one more thing for him to consider as a reason.

Thanks again to all of you for your contributions to helping me figure this out.

*I put the asterisk there because I am not mechanically inept, I just don't have tools and equipment that can handle the weight and size of my tractor... or weld. Welding is not a skill I possess either...

Thanks much for posting the resolution to your problem. Lots of times the original poster just disappears and we never find out what really happened.

Hopefully, the axle repair is good for a few decades of service. This seems like a good thread to ask a general axle question. For an axle pivot that is somewhat wallowed but still serviceable, would it be helpful to wick some type of dry lubricant in the area of wear? I have read that liquid lubricants can just collect grit and compound the wear, but what about dry lubricants like this one?

Making sure all the bolts are tight, and stay tight will be the ticket to a long and happy life....

Thanks for sharing the fix... I would do an bolt inspection at least once a year or twice a year... I get a fair amount of tractors in with loose bolts between the engine and front bolster, but most dont have a loader to eat away the holes.